What should Canada give up in new NAFTA


tay
+2
#1
"The U.S. government hopes to take the first formal step in renegotiating NAFTA within the next couple of weeks, setting the stage for actual negotiations with Canada and Mexico later this year. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross says he hopes to advise Congress within two weeks of the Trump administration's intention to renegotiate the quarter-century-old agreement."

"That would begin a pre-negotiating consultation process of at least 90 days. U.S. law says that if the administration wants lawmakers to agree to a simple yes-or-no vote on a trade deal, it must consult with Congress throughout the process — before negotiations start; during negotiations; and before signing the deal."

Presumably this means we could be hearing from the Trump administration, the Senate and the House of Representatives with respect to their objectives, priorities and red lines in the upcoming talks.

Earlier this week, Ross stated that Canada knows it will have to make "concessions" and that "the only question is what's the magnitude, and what's the form of the concessions." And in January, Ross stated he had informed Canada that the US wants to negotiate on the rules of origin and the investor-state dispute settlement provision (which he feels gives too much power to Canada).

The Canadian Press also notes, "In Canada, there are guidelines requiring ministers to present memorandums to cabinet before trade talks. The government is also consulting with the private sector."

While the Trudeau government is consulting with corporations, it is not consulting with the broader public or with First Nations. Maybe that's because David MacNaughton, the Canadian ambassador to the US, has said he already has "a good sense of what would be in Canada's interest".

To tell Prime Minister Trudeau that his government needs to hold meaningful hearings with the public and First Nations -- and not just with the private sector -- please go to our online action alert, NAFTA renegotiations cannot be another backroom deal (external - login to view).

More than 10,000 people have already sent this message to Trudeau, but more pressure is needed for him to be open, transparent and accountable in these talks.

Trudeau consults corporations, but not the public or First Nations, on upcoming NAFTA talks | The Council of Canadians (external - login to view)
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
We need to develop new trade partnerships, and fast. We are locked into almost all of our trade with a declining and unstable partner.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+2
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious CdnView Post

We need to develop new trade partnerships, and fast. We are locked into almost all of our trade with a declining and unstable partner.

You can trade whatever with whoever you want . What is stopping you ?
 
White_Unifier
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

You can trade whatever with whoever you want . What is stopping you ?

The problem is with country of origin rules.

We should eliminate Canadian content rules too. This would allow Canada's indigenous and other non-English abd non-French media to partner up to benefit from economies of scale. For example, ASL or Ojibwa media with their counterparts in the US, Inuktitut media with their counterparts in Greenland, and Chinese media with its counterparts in China, etc. Under Canadian Content rules, they just can't compete with English and French media that enjoys an economies-of-scale advantage.

We could scrap supply management too.

I would say though that any renegotiated NAFTA should guarantee Canada the freedom to publicly fund sign-language and local indigenous language media at the very least.

Andrew Coyne: If Donald Trump gives up on free trade, Canada doesn’t have to follow

Good article here.

Any concessions Canada makes should be towards freer trade, not more restrictions.

Trump will push in the opposite direction. If push comes to shove and Trump insists on a customs union with external tariffs or he'll tear up NAFTA for example, we should call his bluff and give the US our own ultimatum: free trade with the world or bust.

If Trump wants a trade war with the world, that's his choice, but Canada should not join him in this. It would be painful, but Canada should never be forced to choose between the US and the rest of the world.
Last edited by White_Unifier; 2 weeks ago at 09:20 AM..
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

The problem is with country of origin rules.

We should eliminate Canadian content rules too. This would allow Canada's indigenous and other non-English abd non-French media to partner up to benefit from economies of scale. For example, ASL or Ojibwa media with their counterparts in the US, Inuktitut media with their counterparts in Greenland, and Chinese media with its counterparts in China, etc. Under Canadian Content rules, they just can't compete with English and French media that enjoys an economies-of-scale advantage.

We could scrap supply management too.

I would say though that any renegotiated NAFTA should guarantee Canada the freedom to publicly fund sign-language and local indigenous language media at the very least.

Andrew Coyne: If Donald Trump gives up on free trade, Canada doesn’t have to follow

Good article here.

Any concessions Canada makes should be towards freer trade, not more restrictions.

Trump will push in the opposite direction. If push comes to shove and Trump insists on a customs union with external tariffs or he'll tear up NAFTA for example, we should call his bluff and give the US our own ultimatum: free trade with the world or bust.

If Trump wants a trade war with the world, that's his choice, but Canada should not join him in this. It would be painful, but Canada should never be gorced to choose between the US and the rest of the world.

Yup I agree the CRTC has outlived its usefulness .
 
petros
#6
The original FTA too or just the NAFTA add ons?
 
White_Unifier
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

The original FTA too or just the NAFTA add ons?

So far Trump hasn't discussed the FTA much.
 
petros
+1
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

Yup I agree the CRTC has outlived its usefulness .

Machjo doesn't watch Omni?

There are 10 free Chinese newspapers in Vancouver.

I find they are a better read than the Straight.

Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

So far Trump hasn't discussed the FTA much.

Right so we don't really have anything to worry about other than renegotiating trade with Mexico.

We trade a lot of food and feed for tasty critters with Mexico as well as investments in their mining, minerals and O&G.
 
White_Unifier
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Machjo doesn't watch Omni?

There are 10 free Chinese newspapers in Vancouver.

I find they are a better read than the Straight.

We trade a lot of food and feed for tasty critters with Mexico as well as investments in their mining, minerals and O&G.

If the US pulls out of NAFTA, NAFTA would continue to apply to Canada and Mexico.

But with the US out of the picture, Canada and Mexico could renegotiate an even more open NAFTA between one another.

Right so we don't really have anything to worry about other than renegotiating trade with Mexico.
Last edited by White_Unifier; 2 weeks ago at 10:44 AM..
 
petros
#10
Yup. The FTA doesn't go away and ON gets to keep supplying auto parts at a discount to factories relocated to the US.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

The problem is with country of origin rules.

We should eliminate Canadian content rules too. This would allow Canada's indigenous and other non-English abd non-French media to partner up to benefit from economies of scale. For example, ASL or Ojibwa media with their counterparts in the US, Inuktitut media with their counterparts in Greenland, and Chinese media with its counterparts in China, etc. Under Canadian Content rules, they just can't compete with English and French media that enjoys an economies-of-scale advantage.

We could scrap supply management too.

I would say though that any renegotiated NAFTA should guarantee Canada the freedom to publicly fund sign-language and local indigenous language media at the very least.

Andrew Coyne: If Donald Trump gives up on free trade, Canada doesn’t have to follow

Good article here.

Any concessions Canada makes should be towards freer trade, not more restrictions.

Trump will push in the opposite direction. If push comes to shove and Trump insists on a customs union with external tariffs or he'll tear up NAFTA for example, we should call his bluff and give the US our own ultimatum: free trade with the world or bust.

If Trump wants a trade war with the world, that's his choice, but Canada should not join him in this. It would be painful, but Canada should never be forced to choose between the US and the rest of the world.

That would mean scraping CRTC and allowing Canadians to watch whatever quality TV they wanted instead of forcing us to watch taxpayer subsidized medieocer made in Canada content. lso have to eliminate subsidies to CBC and the Canadian print media.Sounds like a good idea to me. If we eliminate marketing boards Canadian producers would have to compete on quality because they can't beat made in China prices.
 
White_Unifier
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

That would mean scraping CRTC and allowing Canadians to watch whatever quality TV they wanted instead of forcing us to watch taxpayer subsidized medieocer made in Canada content. lso have to eliminate subsidies to CBC and the Canadian print media.Sounds like a good idea to me. If we eliminate marketing boards Canadian producers would have to compete on quality because they can't beat made in China prices.

I'm for it.
 
petros
#13
Don't you have an android box or apple TV yet?

What you can watch is limitless.

Get with the times man.
 
Remington1
#14
The US lost 682,900 jobs and as for Canada, well who knows. The economy has survived despite NATA, not because of. Job losses and wage stagnation are NAFTA's real legacy -- Robert Scott. Would jobs have gone to China anyway? One thing for sure, smaller rural areas, where young people who didn't want to pursue higher education, could in the past count on a failry good paying manufacturing job, is now just a dream. Whatever tweeting is done to NAFTA will benefit the rich not the poor.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

If the US pulls out of NAFTA, NAFTA would continue to apply to Canada and Mexico.

But with the US out of the picture, Canada and Mexico could renegotiate an even more open NAFTA between one another.

Right so we don't really have anything to worry about other than renegotiating trade with Mexico.

The problem with a free trade agreement with Mexico is the vast difference in standard of living.Now if government employees were prepared to take a 90% cut in wages and zero bennies we might be able to level the playing field a bit. Probably have to cut pensions at least in half.Bring in a few million TFWs while we new at it to force wages downward. Yeah that should be good for the country.

Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

I'm for it.

I'm good with scraping taxpayer subsidies for all media. ANd supply management farming.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

That would mean scraping CRTC and allowing Canadians to watch whatever quality TV they wanted instead of forcing us to watch taxpayer subsidized medieocer made in Canada content. lso have to eliminate subsidies to CBC and the Canadian print media.Sounds like a good idea to me. If we eliminate marketing boards Canadian producers would have to compete on quality because they can't beat made in China prices.

Does that mean we can't watch Little Mosque on the Prairie any more , the shame .
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
+1
#17
What should Canada give?

...up on Uncle Sam
 
B00Mer
No Party Affiliation
#18
Dump NAFTA.. and go with Fair Trade..

NAFTA has cost Canadians good jobs...

https://mowatcentre.ca/how-ontario-l...acturing-jobs/ (external - login to view)

"...supported by lower tariff barriers and transportation costs, has contributed to the rise of the Global Value Chain..."

Our population, our standard of living will either have to be lowered to that of 3rd world nations, or we need to start charging duties to push manufacturing back into Canada. Make it cheaper to produce here in Canada, than it is to ship here from another country.

wwwyoutubecomwatchvNMR7tL7tWs

 
pgs
Free Thinker
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

What should Canada give?

...up on Uncle Sam

You also are free to trade whatever with whoever you want . Why do people expect profitable business to find new trading partners ?
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#20
Typical Canadian asked question. The question should be what progress
can we make in the relationship. The world has changed. Canada has a
lot of new opportunities to find new partners to trade with. American is a
protectionist country now and we can fill a big gap in the trade world. I used
to me more protectionist but I see some opportunity here.
First we should trade with those who can afford to buy and actually pay for
our product.
Two we should seek new trading partners and depend less on American trade.
Three we should use the products we have as leverage in the marketplace.
Here are a couple of examples. If our partners throw their weight around we
can cut our oil output to America and sell it elsewhere remember the agreement
is being negotiated. Oil is one how about power. We would not want to cause
water problems they don't have access in bulk to our water but we can say we
are no longer going to supply power automatically on the North American Grid.
Our advantage is we have more power than we need, if the Americans withdrew
power to our regions where its cheaper to buy theirs, we can fill our own needs
they don't have enough.
I prefer a win win in negotiating a deal but if we are to be bullied the time has come
to use our assets to bring pressure on the people at the table.
Some say what about food? Or what about manufacturing? They are more than
likely to close plants in Canada anyway lets look for new partnerships or encourage
Canadian young people to engage in growth here at home and abroad.
We have a chance to unshackle ourselves from an agreement we can improve
With the world changing we can find new partners and do just find
 
coldstream
+2
#21
It's the wrong approach to ask.. "what should Canada give up".

Canada has been as industrially eviscerated as the U.S. has been by NAFTA, FTA, the WTO and the myriad of smaller regional Free Trade Agreements that the pathetic globalist shill governments of Mulroney, Chretien, Harper and J. Trudeau have brought in. Free Trade never has and never will work.

It is a shell game imposed by global trading and financial cartels to usurp the sovereignty of nation states in the interests of exploitation of labour, profiteering of consumers and imposition of a global imperial trading regime completely unresponsible to national governments.

It is fundamentally a tyranny of de facto slavery that gouges desperate captive work forces for the grotesque enrichment of a small cabal of oligarchs; virtually untaxed by way tax havens and regressive taxation regimes.

Trade is important and beneficial, providing it is Fair Trade, conducted under bilateral agreements, equitable to both in both dollar values and jobs supported and continuously flexible and responsive to changing technological and social conditions.

Canada should DUMP the Free Trade ideology that has engulfed it, and START with the goals of developing a sovereign, integrated, national industrial economy.. full, fairly compensated employment.. and a stable currency through fixed international exchange rates, as the platform on which Trade is based.

That existed prior the descent of Canada into the Free Market maelstrom of the last 50 years, which is failing catastrophically.
Last edited by coldstream; 2 weeks ago at 12:58 PM..
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Typical Canadian asked question. The question should be what progress
can we make in the relationship. The world has changed. Canada has a
lot of new opportunities to find new partners to trade with. American is a
protectionist country now and we can fill a big gap in the trade world. I used
to me more protectionist but I see some opportunity here.
First we should trade with those who can afford to buy and actually pay for
our product.
Two we should seek new trading partners and depend less on American trade.
Three we should use the products we have as leverage in the marketplace.
Here are a couple of examples. If our partners throw their weight around we
can cut our oil output to America and sell it elsewhere remember the agreement
is being negotiated. Oil is one how about power. We would not want to cause
water problems they don't have access in bulk to our water but we can say we
are no longer going to supply power automatically on the North American Grid.
Our advantage is we have more power than we need, if the Americans withdrew
power to our regions where its cheaper to buy theirs, we can fill our own needs
they don't have enough.
I prefer a win win in negotiating a deal but if we are to be bullied the time has come
to use our assets to bring pressure on the people at the table.
Some say what about food? Or what about manufacturing? They are more than
likely to close plants in Canada anyway lets look for new partnerships or encourage
Canadian young people to engage in growth here at home and abroad.
We have a chance to unshackle ourselves from an agreement we can improve
With the world changing we can find new partners and do just find

Once again this we you are talking about are independent companies who will trade wherever they have the most access to market , in Canada that happens to be the richest country in the world right next door . Many companies already trade worldwide however in most cases America remains their largest customer .
 
petros
+1
#23
The GST is integrated in the FTA it would have to be reworked as well.
 
coldstream
+1
#24
The demand destroying, regressive sales tax regimes should be completely replaced by progressive income tax systems.. that treats capital gains in equality with income, beyond primary residence, and a reasonable retirement fund. In fact corporate income tax could be elimiated providing all profit that wasn't productively reinvested was distributed as income, or taxed at 50% if it leaves the country.
 
Sons of Liberty
#25
NAFTA to Canada is a Godsend, ya'll can't sell a condom across Provincial lines, as always you keep missing the target.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

You also are free to trade whatever with whoever you want . Why do people expect profitable business to find new trading partners ?

Excuse me.... Did I say trade? Insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results
 
White_Unifier
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The problem with a free trade agreement with Mexico is the vast difference in standard of living.Now if government employees were prepared to take a 90% cut in wages and zero bennies we might be able to level the playing field a bit. Probably have to cut pensions at least in half.Bring in a few million TFWs while we new at it to force wages downward. Yeah that should be good for the country.



I'm good with scraping taxpayer subsidies for all media. ANd supply management farming.

Hong Kong is a very open market yet its real estate is comparable to Vancouver's.

According to your logic, Hong Kong should be like Afghanistan.

Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

Dump NAFTA.. and go with Fair Trade..

NAFTA has cost Canadians good jobs...

https://mowatcentre.ca/how-ontario-l...acturing-jobs/ (external - login to view)

"...supported by lower tariff barriers and transportation costs, has contributed to the rise of the Global Value Chain..."

Our population, our standard of living will either have to be lowered to that of 3rd world nations, or we need to start charging duties to push manufacturing back into Canada. Make it cheaper to produce here in Canada, than it is to ship here from another country.

wwwyoutubecomwatchvNMR7tL7tWs

How has Hong Kong succeeded right next to a much poorer mainland China and very open borders? Are they just smarter than your average Canadian?

Just askin'.
 
Danbones
Free Thinker
#28
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been called the "anti-Trump" in a German newspaper, while at home, supporters on the left have bit their tongue as he renews neighborly ties with the Republican (AFP Photo/Odd ANDERSEN)
More
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-tru...023547290.html (external - login to view)

lol
 
White_Unifier
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by coldstreamView Post

The demand destroying, regressive sales tax regimes should be completely replaced by progressive income tax systems.. that treats capital gains in equality with income, beyond primary residence, and a reasonable retirement fund. In fact corporate income tax could be elimiated providing all profit that wasn't productively reinvested was distributed as income, or taxed at 50% if it leaves the country.

Well there's a recipe to discourage money from entering the country in the first place.

A moderate (and I stress moderate) wealth tax combined with various sin taxes (on alcohol, tobacco, tottery tickets, etc.) and resource extraction taxes would allow us to scrap all tariffs, VATs and income taxes.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Excuse me.... Did I say trade? Insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results

Exacterly !

Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

Hong Kong is a very open market yet its real estate is comparable to Vancouver's.

According to your logic, Hong Kong should be like Afghanistan.



How has Hong Kong succeeded right next to a much poorer mainland China and very open borders? Are they just smarter than your average Canadian?

Just askin'.

I will gladly trade my Vancouver unit straight up for a comparable property in Hong Kong .

Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

Hong Kong is a very open market yet its real estate is comparable to Vancouver's.

According to your logic, Hong Kong should be like Afghanistan.



How has Hong Kong succeeded right next to a much poorer mainland China and very open borders? Are they just smarter than your average Canadian?

Just askin'.

Hong Kong was founded and built on trade with the British empire . Hong Kong was and still is the middle man .

Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

Well there's a recipe to discourage money from entering the country in the first place.

A moderate (and I stress moderate) wealth tax combined with various sin taxes (on alcohol, tobacco, tottery tickets, etc.) and resource extraction taxes would allow us to scrap all tariffs, VATs and income taxes.

Maybe we can apply more tariffs and scrap alcohol , lottery and a bunch of other taxes .
 

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