The Fuzzy Math of Ontario’s Climate Plan

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
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Lorrie Goldstein Verified account ‏@sunlorrie

'It would cost almost $17 billion dollars per yr 4 Ontario's government 2 meet its carbon dioxide reduction targets'




On Wednesday, the Government of Ontario released its new Climate Change Action Plan, a complement to the cap and trade plan that the government has been gradually elaborating over the past few months. While the cap and trade plan is supposed to create economic incentives for businesses and consumers to reduce their own emissions, the action plan details how the government will spend the proceeds from cap and trade auctions to reduce emissions further.

The plan outlines a grab bag of measures, some explained in detail, some rather vague, some with emissions reductions attached, others promising future reductions after the life of this plan from 2017 to 2020. The cost per tonne of emissions reductions indicated in the document ranges from an affordable $5 per tonne to add renewable natural gas to Ontario’s gas distribution system to $425 per tonne to reduce emissions from multi-residential buildings or $525 for greenhouse gas reductions from building the GO Express. The costs of some of these measures are extremely high – but on second glance, they may even be higher. The document indicates a cost estimate over four years thought it reports emissions reductions estimates only for 2020. But if one assumes that the spending and emissions reductions ramp up evenly over the 4-year period from 2017 to 2020, that means that roughly 40% of the total reductions would be achieved in 2020. If the government spends a mid range of its estimates – around $7 billion – to achieve roughly 10 million tonnes of reductions by 2020 (or roughly 25 million tonnes over a four year period) that means that the average cost of reduction is $280 per tonne. Furthermore the costs of many of the specific reductions listed look a lot higher as well – the cost of reducing emissions through renewable natural gas closer to $30 per tonne, while the cost of reductions from multiresidential buildings may be over $3000 per tonne.

Ontario’s strategy seems not to rely on carbon pricing to incent businesses and individuals to reduce their emissions, but to use cap and trade revenues as a way of raising money to purchase much more expensive reductions. For 2020, the gap between Ontario’s projected emissions and its target is about 19 megatonnes. The current plan will get about 3 megatonnes of reductions from cap and trade. If the government’s plan succeeds in buying another 10 megatonnes of reductions, that leaves 6 megatonnes to meet the target – presumably by buying allowances from California. But to achieve the government’s 2030 target of a 37% reduction below 1990 levels, there is a gap of roughly 70 megatonnes between projected emissions and the target. If cap and trade reductions triple to 10 megatonnes, then that means 60 megatonnes to close the gap. At $280 per tonne, that would cost almost $17 billion dollars per year for the government to buy its way to meeting our reduction targets.

The best way to reduce emissions is to rely on a strong carbon price signal to do most of the work, and let businesses and consumers figure out how to respond to it. They can be given the resources to pay for higher fossil fuel energy and other costs by cutting other businesses and personal taxes. Instead, the Ontario plan treats carbon pricing as a kind of “sin tax” that is used to raise money for a highly expensive subsidy program – a program that is excessively costly in the short run, and in the long run completely unsustainable. It is time for Ontario to go back to the drawing board and design a carbon pricing system, such as a revenue neutral carbon tax, that lets price, not subsidies, do the work.


The Fuzzy Math of Ontario’s Climate Plan - Canadians for Clean Prosperity


#eatingtheirown

GYFHAS ن ‏@GYFHAS

@sunlorrie and the point of doing so would be what?



 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
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Good. YOU pay for it

We all will.

But when you look at the sacrifice each person would make it's quite small. Small potatoes one might say.

Right wing pundits like to scare people with big numbers when it comes to money (millions and billions and trillions oh my).


The more important question for public funding is what it means to you, and that generally translates into the cost of cup of Timmies.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
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London, Ontario
Yeah ... mine's in having trusted the bastards with my life.

Ontario lies....

Yes they do. They all lie. Conservative, New Democrat, Liberal....they all lie.

And they will continue to all lie until people stop making excuses for them based on some perverted sense of "party loyalty". We're the voters, they work for us.....but we let them walk all over us.

Piss off Chiarelli

He doesn't get it. He's getting neck strain from trying to see the point that's flying way above his head.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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In the bush near Sudbury
Yes they do. They all lie. Conservative, New Democrat, Liberal....they all lie.

And they will continue to all lie until people stop making excuses for them based on some perverted sense of "party loyalty". We're the voters, they work for us.....but we let them walk all over us.



He doesn't get it. He's getting neck strain from trying to see the point that's flying way above his head.
I think hero worshipers should all have their little bollocks 'n' boobies slammed into great big ol' Detroit Iron doors and be driven into Lake Ontario. Too many idiots would vote for the fence post if it was painted in their favourite colour. I guess it saves them from actually thinking....
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
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Of course politicians lie.

That's one of the problems with a representative democracy.

But they do want to make it through to the next election so they can't be as egregious as someone like Donald Trump or they will just burn out and lose too much political capital.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,360
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Low Earth Orbit
Oh, hey, c'mon now. This is all just.....



....people have plenty of money, jobs are plentiful, we are all living the good life here...and if you're not, well that must be because you have the wrong pedigree.

I'm a Sebago.

Of course politicians lie.

That's one of the problems with a representative democracy.

But they do want to make it through to the next election so they can't be as egregious as someone like Donald Trump or they will just burn out and lose too much political capital.

Soviets never lie?
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
We all will.

But when you look at the sacrifice each person would make it's quite small. Small potatoes one might say.

Right wing pundits like to scare people with big numbers when it comes to money (millions and billions and trillions oh my).


The more important question for public funding is what it means to you, and that generally translates into the cost of cup of Timmies.
Typical blather from the uneducated. Or the intellectually dishonest, either one. It's not the cost of a single cup of Timmies that's the problem. It's the total cost of all those cups of Timmies from policy to policy that add up. Then add that to the fact the LPO hasn't once been able to achieve value for the dollars they love to spend.
Of course it's funny as hell listening to you waffle on about small numbers when what Ontario contributes on a whole to GHG emissions is about three-fifths of f*ck all in the greater scheme of things. But we need to spend big money to reduce that. And we're not even reducing sh*t, we're just passing the buck. So we're not spending all this money to solve anything, it's merely being spent so other countries with no discernible environmental laws can go whole hog in playing catch-up.
Meanwhile fluffers like you are too goddam blinded by your idiotic ideology to see past the bullsh*t.


Some drink deeply from the fountain of knowledge. I get the impression you merely gargled and spit.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,360
11,432
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Low Earth Orbit
$2.15 for a extra large cup o Timmie's. Throw on a 30¢ tax for no good reason and the cup o Tims is $2.45

Will that stop people who can afford Tims?
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
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It sure has.

yep. quite sure the excitable boy was hoping for an old stock trump supporting redneck racist to have been the killer. it's how progs roll. hope for disaster, hope for bad news, then they can 'fix' you.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
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In the bush near Sudbury
Not sure if it's the fuzzy math or the lying headgames that I find more insulting. The sooner WynnCo is gone, the better off we'll be - and the less time it will take to take a look at what's left