Let’s just call it by it's given name: terrorism

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
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nice:

There are few debates I consider less constructive than the indeterminable bleating over what does and does not constitute terrorism.

It’s, perhaps, a more productive quibble than whether or not we ought to de-gender the national anthem, but marginally less useful than endless back-and-forth banter over whether the Prime Minister will resign.

That is to say: on the spectrum of important national discussions to be had in this country, whether or not we should use the word “terrorism” to define last week’s attacks on Canadian Forces personnel is pretty near the god dang bottom.

There is an element in this country dead-set on the idea that one, or both, of last week’s attacks were not the product of an international campaign to bring war to Canada’s territory, but instead the product of addiction, mental illness, and disaffection.

To those people, respectfully: you’re tilting at windmills.

Yes, mental illness is a factor. Obviously. But there is probably a bipolar insurgent driving around Baghdad with a car full of explosives and a headful of undiagnosed mental illness. That doesn’t make him any less a terrorist, nor does it absolve his subsequent attack of its intended impact of terrifying and intimidating the population.

So when we talk about Michael Zehaf-Bibeau and Martin Couture-Rouleau, we can’t merely take one aspect of their life and ignore the rest. We can’t, and shouldn’t, take Zehaf-Bibeau’s drug use and stretch it to cover his actions, ignoring his obvious radicalization, just as we can’t look at Couture-Rouleau’s failed business enterprise and negate his obvious turn to violent Islam.

It feels quite strongly as though those who wish to do exactly that — to commit sociology, as it’s been phrased — do so with political motives. The goal, there, is to undercut any excuse the government may have to bestow on itself more powers, or to head-off any effort to conflate this contorted, bastardized version of Islam with the real religion. That is, these armchair sociologists are looking for a way out of the nasty atmosphere that created both a wave of hate crimes, and the Patriot Act.

Those are both pretty laudable goals, but to try and accomplish them by resisting calling a spade, a spade, is wrongheaded.

The fact is, the country feels attacked. Two individuals, adhering to a belief propagated by our enemies, opened fire not just on our national institutions, but on the men and women who are sworn to protect them.

I’m not much for jingoism, and you could even call me a lousy patriot, but it strikes me that any effort to target the facets of a state at the behest of a group sworn to destroy us is a pretty prime example of terrorism.

And to that end, it’s why last week’s attacks rest in a different category than, say, a school shooting. The events at Columbine were personal — disgruntled teens shooting the schoolmates and teachers who, in their eyes, made life hell.

Here, the two radicalized Canadians were trying to kill men they didn’t know in order to bring war to Canadian soil.

Now, other comparisons have been drawn to Justin Bourque, and his effort to kill as many New Brunswick police as possible. Is that terrorism? Sure, why not.

Like I said, I loathe this debate. I’m engaging in it now, only with the hope that we can get on the same page and avoid ever having it again.

So, with Bourque, he evidently committed an act of violence with the express purpose of advancing his paranoid, anti-state beliefs. To that end, calling it terrorism is probably a pretty safe bet.

But what made last week’s attacks even more clear-cut examples of the new form of terror that we’re facing is that they were directed by ISIS.

Many recoil when I write that. There is, of course, no solid proof that either attacker had direct contact with the terrorists in Syria or Iraq. What’s brilliant, and particularly odious, about ISIS is that they didn’t have to.

ISIS’ ideology is the exact sort of anti-state propaganda that worms its way into the heads of troubled and disaffected youth, and encourages them to kill in the name of a religion to which they have no other connection.

ISIS looks powerful. It has terrified and ruffled the West in the way that other terrorist groups have not. Osama Bin Laden was an old man who hid in a cave and issued dry theocratic edicts. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi claims an expanding empire, and invites followers world-wide to join his crusade.

And, in a very literal way, al-Baghdadi’s high-tech thugs allow any idiotic with a modem to download his ideology. Like a virus, those instructions to attack and kill symbols of the state take root in otherwise docile Canadians.

We used to be worried about sleeper cells — small groups that would blend into society, only to spring into action once a beacon is activated and kill civilians. Now, these self-radicalized individuals turn themselves into sleeper cells, and they could be activated at any time. That’s what makes them so dangerous.

To this end, there’d undoubtedly be little substantive difference between an attack directly and privately ordered by ISIS, and an attack that came about because of a public instruction from the group — like the call they made earlier this month to attack Canadian soldiers.

And the practical effect of these attacks is that people feel pretty damn terrified. I know, because I was absolutely terrified as a crouched below a low wall in Parliament, having just been told that a gunmen was roaming the halls.

But critics of calling this ‘terrorism’ are right: governments use events like this to bestow themselves more power. They do so out of helplessness, and an urgent need to fix the regime that all0wed such a thing to happen. But decision making based on emotion is, of course, not always sound.

To that end, just because we accept that an attack is terrorism does not mean that we should lay down as our government steamrolls our civil liberties. We should recognize the need to prevent these attacks without heading down a slippery slope towards a system where we sacrificed the very thing that we long to defend.

And, of course, in recognizing that a form of violent Islam facilitated this attack, we mustn’t let ourselves believe that Islam itself is to blame. It can’t be. The main victims of ISIS are Muslims. And when the radicals activated by ISIS here at home open fire at our Canadian Forces, there is a very substantial chance that they will be firing at a fellow Muslim.

But those two realities —that we need to fight against both oppressive government surveillance and against xenophobia — do not become clearer or easier because we call this a random act of violence, instead of what it truly is.

Addendum: There is, by the way, a definition of terrorism in the Criminal Code.


“an act or omission, in or outside Canada, that is committed: (A) in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause, and, (B) in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act, whether the public or the person, government or organization is inside or outside Canada, and causes death or serious bodily harm to a person by the use of violence.”


There’s more to the definition. You can find it here.


Let's just call it terrorism - Loonie Politics
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,384
11,442
113
Low Earth Orbit
Great article.

B) in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security,

As I said yesterday...we have no shortage of terror attacks in Canada when Native gangs are targeting "fu¢king whitie" IN THEIR HOMES.
 

sultana

New Member
Oct 22, 2014
14
0
1
nice:

There are few debates I consider less constructive than the indeterminable bleating over what does and does not constitute terrorism.

It’s, perhaps, a more productive quibble than whether or not we ought to de-gender the national anthem, but marginally less useful than endless back-and-forth banter over whether the Prime Minister will resign.

That is to say: on the spectrum of important national discussions to be had in this country, whether or not we should use the word “terrorism” to define last week’s attacks on Canadian Forces personnel is pretty near the god dang bottom.

There is an element in this country dead-set on the idea that one, or both, of last week’s attacks were not the product of an international campaign to bring war to Canada’s territory, but instead the product of addiction, mental illness, and disaffection.

To those people, respectfully: you’re tilting at windmills.

Yes, mental illness is a factor. Obviously. But there is probably a bipolar insurgent driving around Baghdad with a car full of explosives and a headful of undiagnosed mental illness. That doesn’t make him any less a terrorist, nor does it absolve his subsequent attack of its intended impact of terrifying and intimidating the population.

So when we talk about Michael Zehaf-Bibeau and Martin Couture-Rouleau, we can’t merely take one aspect of their life and ignore the rest. We can’t, and shouldn’t, take Zehaf-Bibeau’s drug use and stretch it to cover his actions, ignoring his obvious radicalization, just as we can’t look at Couture-Rouleau’s failed business enterprise and negate his obvious turn to violent Islam.

It feels quite strongly as though those who wish to do exactly that — to commit sociology, as it’s been phrased — do so with political motives. The goal, there, is to undercut any excuse the government may have to bestow on itself more powers, or to head-off any effort to conflate this contorted, bastardized version of Islam with the real religion. That is, these armchair sociologists are looking for a way out of the nasty atmosphere that created both a wave of hate crimes, and the Patriot Act.

Those are both pretty laudable goals, but to try and accomplish them by resisting calling a spade, a spade, is wrongheaded.

The fact is, the country feels attacked. Two individuals, adhering to a belief propagated by our enemies, opened fire not just on our national institutions, but on the men and women who are sworn to protect them.

I’m not much for jingoism, and you could even call me a lousy patriot, but it strikes me that any effort to target the facets of a state at the behest of a group sworn to destroy us is a pretty prime example of terrorism.

And to that end, it’s why last week’s attacks rest in a different category than, say, a school shooting. The events at Columbine were personal — disgruntled teens shooting the schoolmates and teachers who, in their eyes, made life hell.

Here, the two radicalized Canadians were trying to kill men they didn’t know in order to bring war to Canadian soil.

Now, other comparisons have been drawn to Justin Bourque, and his effort to kill as many New Brunswick police as possible. Is that terrorism? Sure, why not.

Like I said, I loathe this debate. I’m engaging in it now, only with the hope that we can get on the same page and avoid ever having it again.

So, with Bourque, he evidently committed an act of violence with the express purpose of advancing his paranoid, anti-state beliefs. To that end, calling it terrorism is probably a pretty safe bet.

But what made last week’s attacks even more clear-cut examples of the new form of terror that we’re facing is that they were directed by ISIS.

Many recoil when I write that. There is, of course, no solid proof that either attacker had direct contact with the terrorists in Syria or Iraq. What’s brilliant, and particularly odious, about ISIS is that they didn’t have to.

ISIS’ ideology is the exact sort of anti-state propaganda that worms its way into the heads of troubled and disaffected youth, and encourages them to kill in the name of a religion to which they have no other connection.

ISIS looks powerful. It has terrified and ruffled the West in the way that other terrorist groups have not. Osama Bin Laden was an old man who hid in a cave and issued dry theocratic edicts. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi claims an expanding empire, and invites followers world-wide to join his crusade.

And, in a very literal way, al-Baghdadi’s high-tech thugs allow any idiotic with a modem to download his ideology. Like a virus, those instructions to attack and kill symbols of the state take root in otherwise docile Canadians.

We used to be worried about sleeper cells — small groups that would blend into society, only to spring into action once a beacon is activated and kill civilians. Now, these self-radicalized individuals turn themselves into sleeper cells, and they could be activated at any time. That’s what makes them so dangerous.

To this end, there’d undoubtedly be little substantive difference between an attack directly and privately ordered by ISIS, and an attack that came about because of a public instruction from the group — like the call they made earlier this month to attack Canadian soldiers.

And the practical effect of these attacks is that people feel pretty damn terrified. I know, because I was absolutely terrified as a crouched below a low wall in Parliament, having just been told that a gunmen was roaming the halls.

But critics of calling this ‘terrorism’ are right: governments use events like this to bestow themselves more power. They do so out of helplessness, and an urgent need to fix the regime that all0wed such a thing to happen. But decision making based on emotion is, of course, not always sound.

To that end, just because we accept that an attack is terrorism does not mean that we should lay down as our government steamrolls our civil liberties. We should recognize the need to prevent these attacks without heading down a slippery slope towards a system where we sacrificed the very thing that we long to defend.

And, of course, in recognizing that a form of violent Islam facilitated this attack, we mustn’t let ourselves believe that Islam itself is to blame. It can’t be. The main victims of ISIS are Muslims. And when the radicals activated by ISIS here at home open fire at our Canadian Forces, there is a very substantial chance that they will be firing at a fellow Muslim.

But those two realities —that we need to fight against both oppressive government surveillance and against xenophobia — do not become clearer or easier because we call this a random act of violence, instead of what it truly is.

Addendum: There is, by the way, a definition of terrorism in the Criminal Code.


“an act or omission, in or outside Canada, that is committed: (A) in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause, and, (B) in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act, whether the public or the person, government or organization is inside or outside Canada, and causes death or serious bodily harm to a person by the use of violence.”


There’s more to the definition. You can find it here.


Let's just call it terrorism - Loonie Politics
o.k.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
It woulds be quicker to just do a body count. Anybody not killed by a NATO member nation is terrorism, NATO has to wipe out more than 1M people in foreign land or it isn't cost effective. Vietnam 3M. Iraq/Afghanistan >1M
Lies and pre-emptive strikes are quite alright, shooting a foreigner on your land when he has a weapon is still an act of terror if it is a NATO member or being fed by NATO supplies. Baghdad sniper would have been called a patriot if he was an American in America fight during the war against England way back when.

Jobs like the Nazi SS Stormtroopers that the US smuggled in under their citizens noses so the CIA could get some 'experienced help'. It might be a move cheered by the US and Canada and the usual suspects but overall I don't think it really enhanced the lives of the locals or the people of any foreign land they have targeted since then. Those the cushy Gov jobs you talking about?
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
If you didn't believe that bullshyte you're spewing you would simply be a troll....
Since you seem to actually believe it, you're a bloomin' Idiot
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
What is terrorism? Terrorism does not include civil disobedience and it does not
cover a riot or a violent outburst at say a picket line it does not cover a mental
patient going off into a fit of violent rage, if that were the case there would be terror
laws in force decades ago.
Terrorism is a calculated act that is attempting to kill innocent citizens cause
infrastructure damage and disrupt the mental security of the nation.
The nut case of last week was both a nut case and an attempt at terrorism.
Yes he read the nonsense of ISIS and others it made him act on his insanity but
it was not an organized event to cause a specific objective it was more of an act
of anarchy wanting to be a part of an objective.
Splitting hairs not at all. If we succumb to every threat as a terrorist attack the
significance of a terror attack will diminish the the eyes of the public and if an
organized attack comes we are even less prepared
We must understand this act caused terror and it created anarchy but it did limited
damage and caused untold heartache for families and neighbors however it did
not measure up to a full fledged terror attack in the true sense of the word
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Quoting another conspiracy theorist is not proof.....it just means you need heavier tin foil.....
Pretty cocky for somebody who doesn't even know any questions let alone the answers. Goes to show what you turn out like when you refuse to grow-up. Funny to watch is a sad sort of way.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
Let's call the Moncton shootings terrorism too.

Oh wait, you don't want to do that.
(because it's a white dood)
 

gore0bsessed

Time Out
Oct 23, 2011
2,414
0
36
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
45
48
65
keep it simple and don't get too mad apologists.

“an act or omission, in or outside Canada, that is committed: (A) in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause, and, (B) in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act, whether the public or the person, government or organization is inside or outside Canada, and causes death or serious bodily harm to a person by the use of violence.”

peace.