The shootings in Ottawa won't change this country

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I'm going to post this again because I really think it needs to be the focal point.

This is not about Harper or Trudeau or any thing political.

This is about what it truly means Canadian and how critically important it is to remain business as usual after something like this.


David Moscrop and Amanda Watson: The shootings in Ottawa won't change this country

Canada Day fireworks on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Monday, July 1, 2013. Amanda Watson and David Moscrop argue that Canada should not change its traditions or culture in response to Wednesday's attack.


Over morning coffee in Pacific Daylight Time, breaking accounts from Parliament Hill interrupted traffic and weather on The Early Edition and social media accounts of an attack flooded the Internet. It was shocking news. Residents of Canada are unaccustomed to hearing about shooting attacks on our capital.

In real time, people watched and listened as events unfolded, and before the attack was even over, they speculated why it had happened, how it had happened, and who was responsible. Rightly, many of us were alarmed.

One of the core functions of the state is to protect those within its borders. In Canada, every person should be able to live and go about their business each day assuming that they will be safe. While there is evidence that some people’s lives are less secure than others, before Wednesday’s shootings, many of us assumed we would wake up in the morning and go to bed at night without physical threat. The same is still true today. Wednesday’s attack, whatever it was, whoever perpetrated it, changes very little about how we conceive of the security of the state and its inhabitants as it relates to political violence — whether or not we conceive of this violence as “terrorism.”

At least it should change very little. What happens next remains to be seen. The day of the shooting saw a fast, coordinated, and generally effective response from law enforcement in Ottawa. It saw those in the streets and the buildings of downtown Ottawa remain, by and large, quite calm. In a lot of ways, it was a model of how a security apparatus and a population should respond to an emergency like this. But the true test of Canada’s resilience in the face of political violence starts now, and it rests on the question: What next?

We can feel shocked. We can feel saddened. We can feel angry. We can be concerned about the physical safety of those who work the Hill. We can mourn the loss of human life. We can entertain all of these responses, just as we can and should entertain them for everyone who lives and works under unsafe conditions, and there are many of these workers in Canada.

RELATED

Full coverage of the Parliament precinct shootings
Our representatives and staffers might not feel the same in their offices. Visitors may stop making light of their open access to Centre Block. Surely, the lives of the family and friends of the fallen soldier will never be the same. These things are different.

We can consider improved, though limited, safety protocols for Parliament and the downtown community, just as we can reconsider access to deadly weapons, especially in the context of the destruction of records in the federal long-gun registry.

At the same time, in this moment, we might also proceed by targeting common, persistent, and significant risks to residents. Because what continues to change people’s lives are, for example, preventable accidents, circulatory diseases, and cancer. More broadly are the threats of environmental insecurity, income inequality, corporate unaccountability, police violence against poor and racialized communities, systemic racial, religious and sexual discrimination, past and ongoing colonialism, and the persistent acts of domestic violence that terrorize daily lives.

These insidious threats might not stun the collective with the same wrenching force as a public act of violence, but they are most urgent.

There are things that must not change. This attack must not be made an excuse to justify further acts of violence: physical, social, political, cultural. It must not be treated as an opportunity to overhaul the security system of the country in an attempt to guard against any perceived foreign or domestic threat, to reshape our foreign policy, to mount cameras in every nook and cranny, to try to redefine what it means to live in a safe city, province, or country. It might not seem like it, but this is a time for nuance and careful evaluation — a time to check our gut feelings and practise restraint. It is not a time for overreaction.

It doesn’t make sense to overreact, because we have been here before. This is not the first time we have “lost our innocence.” Conflict has always, unfortunately, been part of the history of this country. The colonization that birthed this country. The Plains of Abraham. The assassination of D’Arcy McGee. Two World Wars. Residential schools. The FLQ Crisis. The École Polytechnique massacre. The Air India bombing. The Oka Crisis. The war in Afghanistan. The looming battle with ISIL.

Neither heroes nor mass securitization will spare us from the threat of violence: nothing ever has. A careful, measured response to the changing nature of domestic and foreign threats can reduce the probability that any of us will be the victim of political violence, but nothing will fully eliminate that ancient and ever-present threat.

If anything at the macro level should change — that is, aside from introducing reasonable changes to the security of Parliament — it should be our investment in social provisions that mitigate common risk. Rather than calling for looser gun laws — many, in the name of vigilante justice, have already done so — or stricter immigration controls — again, predictably, this dialogue emerged before anyone even knew who carried out this attack — or any other measure to induce some vague feeling of “safety,” we should use the evidence we already have to improve health and safety through social and political programmatic changes. We know that social determinants of health like income and income distribution, employment and labour standards, social exclusion, aboriginal status, disability, and access to health and education services inform who is at risk.

There is a purposeful response that does not escalate violence or intensify intersections of discrimination and exclusion and securitization.

Photos that capture the image of a dying soldier being given mouth-to-mouth or terrified politicians barricading themselves inside a room are processed viscerally. They’re felt in the gut and they’re felt hard. But let’s not forget the images of hundreds of people practising yoga on the lawn of Parliament. Or of a crowd of Canadians gathered on the Hill for a light show. Or a small, huddled group taking in the Centennial Flame on a crisp fall evening. The former images are profound, but rare; the latter are the norm, and whatever we do next, we must struggle to ensure that they remain so without giving in to the temptation of mass overreaction.

Amanda Watson is a PhD candidate at the University of Ottawa. David Moscrop is a PhD candidate in political science at the University of British Columbia.

David Moscrop and Amanda Watson: The shootings in Ottawa won’t change this country | Ottawa Citizen

I am going to assume this thread won't get much exposure because of the nature of the astroturfing on this board from people like spaminator and Boomer.

That being said, this is the only one I expect to make and I will update it regularly with appropriate articles on the subject.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I am going to assume this thread won't get much exposure because of the nature of the astroturfing on this board from people like spaminator and Boomer.
I was actually reading your OP, planning on giving it a thumbs up, when you updated it with your divisive, attention wh*ring comment.

For someone who cries like a bitch about the shananigans that go here, you do everything in your power to propagate and perpetuate it.

That being said, this is the only one I expect to make and I will update it regularly with appropriate articles on the subject.
Thanks for the heads up on your need to troll spam.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I've had you on ignore for the last two weeks so I'm going to assume that was a compliment.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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I've had you on ignore for the last two weeks so I'm going to assume that was a compliment.
You should leave me there, or put me back, if I'm actually on ignore. My opinion of you as a person, hasn't improved since I read you idiotic commentary yesterday.

The stupidity you posited at the bottom of your OP, only confirms my opinion.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
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I was actually reading your OP, planning on giving it a thumbs up, when you updated it with your divisive, attention wh*ring comment.

For someone who cries like a bitch about the shananigans that go here, you do everything in your power to propagate and perpetuate it.

Thanks for the heads up on your need to troll spam.

You should leave me there, or put me back, if I'm actually on ignore. My opinion of you as a person, hasn't improved since I read you idiotic commentary yesterday.

The stupidity you posited at the bottom of your OP, only confirms my opinion.


Just so he can read it.....unless I'm on ignore too...
Looking for his favorite meme to post is too much trouble....
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
Yea I just thought I'd finally let him know.
It's ok Flossy, it's not as if me being on your iggy list will prevent me from making a fool of you or giving you due props.

I'm fair like that. You should try it sometime. It requires objectivity and honesty, so I'll understand how you'll struggle with it.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Y'know, talking to somebody you claim to be ignoring is kinda self-defeating.
I believe the ignore is to stop you from hearing them rather than what you suggests. As soon as somebody quotes it it is no longer hidden. Bear will appreciate the moral support though.

I deserve the red bear, calling you an 'it' was so low of me, don't know what got into me.
 
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grainfedpraiboy

Electoral Member
Mar 15, 2009
715
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Alberta The Last Best West
Canada has always talked a big game on multicultural tolerance and the reality of it is you'd be hard pressed to find a more tolerant or accommodating country outside a few exceptions in Europe.

But Canada kicks *** and takes names when the chips are down or she feels threatened as evidenced by our internment camps, our actions during the Cold war or our peace making when necessary. A couple of Islamist attacks here and there will rankle a few feathers on guys like me who aren't particularly keen on an exploding Muslim population as it is, generate a lot of speeches by our leaders on what a strong people we are and how our resolve won't be defeated but instead strengthened and of course the obligatory provisos of how Islam is really a religion of peace hijacked by a misguided minority.

But the reality is that if you bump the numbers of attacks from once in a blue and purple moon to almost every day for a year or two like how the Israelis live as an example, I highly doubt we would continue to show the same levels of tolerance and restraint they do.

Already polls show most Canadians are fed up with Islam and would like curbs on immigration and accommodation and more encouragement for Muslims here to assimilate. And while this is the opinion of the majority of Canadians it is not quite discussed openly in the mainstream media.......yet.......but a subway bombing with death toll and/or 9/11 type attack would change that.

Canada's national police, spy agencies, and privy council have all identified radical Islam as the single greatest threat to our peace and security. Canadian citizens by and large are not happy with mass Muslim immigration and creeping institutional Islamification and most are opposed to further increases or deterioration of our personal freedoms in a trade off of security to protect us from the enemy living amongst us.

I believe a steady stream of small Islamic attacks or several large ones will elicit a far more heavy handed response from Canada than people are ready to consider at the moment.
 

MHz

Time Out
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I believe a steady stream of small Islamic attacks or several large ones will elicit a far more heavy handed response from Canada than people are ready to consider at the moment.
Are you making the call for the extinction of all Muslims in Canad and the World? You don't even like it when you get reported to the authorities. You could always grab your balls and your parachute and go free Saudi from the radical Muslims as a start..

Rather than a drive-by red ploughboy you could qualify your statement, oh wait the red was the whole of your argument.
How did you make out tuning in all the Christians on the threads I mentioned?

You still here gerr, you lost the contest and now you refuse to pay up, at least you know what company to hang around. You best stay in the shadows you little fuk.
 
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DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
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Are you making the call for the extinction of all Muslims in Canad and the World? You don't even like it when you get reported to the authorities. You could always grab your balls and your parachute and go free Saudi from the radical Muslims as a start..

.
And maybe you could go fight with them over there since you love them soooo much!
 

grainfedpraiboy

Electoral Member
Mar 15, 2009
715
1
18
Alberta The Last Best West
Are you making the call for the extinction of all Muslims in Canad and the World?

Your lack in ability to understand what you read is astounding. I am saying that Canada would take stronger measures to not allow radical Islam to flourish. Whether that would occur through immigration curbs, citizenship screening, Madrassa funding reductions, security profiling etc remains to be seen.

You don't even like it when you get reported to the authorities.

You're such a ***** you're embarrassing me in front of the Americans.

You could always grab your balls and your parachute and go free Saudi from the radical Muslims as a start.

Too late for Saudi Arabia and anywhere on Earth Muslims account for 15% or more of the population. Canada still has a chance though and I'd like to leave this country to future generations more or less the same way I inherited it.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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I just called a few of them killers, that would hardly a term of endearment. Just because I don't want all Muslims in the world killed like you tards is a difference I'm more than willing to live with.

Your lack in ability to understand what you read is astounding. I am saying that Canada would take stronger measures to not allow radical Islam to flourish. Whether that would occur through immigration curbs, citizenship screening, Madrassa funding reductions, security profiling etc remains to be seen.



You're such a ***** you're embarrassing me in front of the Americans.



Too late for Saudi Arabia and anywhere on Earth Muslims account for 15% or more of the population. Canada still has a chance though and I'd like to leave this country to future generations more or less the same way I inherited it.
Maybe we could get you to create a citizens police force and give it a trick name like 'the brown shirts', that is how Hitlers bosses solved the problem of the citizens not jumping on board for vigilante justice.

You embarrass yourself every-time you hit the post button, you don't need any help from me in that area.
Too late for you too then and you should be contained so you don't spread. Perhaps your pedophile post will speed that along.
 

grainfedpraiboy

Electoral Member
Mar 15, 2009
715
1
18
Alberta The Last Best West
I just called a few of them killers, that would hardly a term of endearment. Just because I don't want all Muslims in the world killed like you tards is a difference I'm more than willing to live with.

Unfortunately the world's Muslims don't feel the same way about infidels:

Terrorism
ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK - Telegraph
NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
Many British Muslims Put Islam First - CBS News
WebCite query result

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
A Year After Iraq War | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
PJ Media
Poll: 32% of Palestinians support Itamar attack - Israel News, Ynetnews

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
Zestien procent moslimjongens vindt terrorisme aanvaardbaar - HLN.be

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
The Scotsman
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Poll%20Nov%2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Nov04.asp
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Pew Research (2013): 15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
PCPO (2014): 89% of Palestinians support Hamas and other terrorists firing rockets at Israeli civilians.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/poll-89-of-palestinians-support-jihad-terror-attacks-on-israely
Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

See also: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_(Terrorism) for further statistics on Islamic terror.

al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and Islamic State (ISIS)
Pew Research (2007): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (27% can’t make up their minds). Only 58% reject al-Qaeda outright.
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2011): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (14% can’t make up their minds).
Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.
Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
al-Jazeera (2006): 49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
Osama Bin Laden Al Qaeda Leader Profile
Pew Research: 59% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
41% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2007
56% of Jordanians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
Al-Qaida's Dirty Little Secret - Forbes
Pew Global: 51% of Palestinians support Osama bin Laden
54% of Muslim Nigerians Support Osama bin Laden
Blinded by Hate | FrontPage Magazine
http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/268.pdf
MacDonald Laurier Institute: 35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
Strong support for Shariah in Canada | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
Much good news and some worrying results in new study of Muslim public opinion in Canada | Macdonald-Laurier Institute
World Public Opinion: Muslim majorities agree with the al-Qaeda goal of Islamic law.
Muslim majorities agree with al-Qaeda goal of keeping Western values out of Islamic countries;
(Egypt: 88%; Indonesia 76%; Pakistan 60%; Morocco 64%)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
ICM Poll: 13% of Muslim in Britain support al-Qaeda attacks on America.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/guardian-muslims-march-2004.asp
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
World Public Opinion: Attitude toward Osama bin Laden:
Egypt: 44% positive, 17% negative, and 25% mixed feelings
Indonesia: 14% positive, 26% negative, 21% mixed feelings (39% did not answer)
Pakistan: 25% positive, 15% negative, 26% mixed feelings (34% did not answer)
Morocco: 27% positive, 21% negative, 26% mixed feelings
Jordanians, Palestinians, Turks and Azerbaijanis. Jordanians combined for: 27% positive, 20 percent negative, and 27 percent mixed feelings. (Palestinians 56% positive, 20% negative, 22 percent mixed feelings).
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
Pew Research (2010): 49% of Nigerian Muslims have favorable view of al-Qaeda (34% unfavorable)
23% of Indonesians have favorable view of al-Qaeda (56% unfavorable)
34% of Jordanians have favorable view of al-Qaeda
25% of Indonesians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden (59% had confidence in 2003)
1 in 5 Egyptians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
Pew Research (2011): 22% of Indonesians have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (21% unfavorable)
Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
Gallup: 51% of Pakistanis grieve Osama bin Laden (only 11% happy over death)
44% of Pakistanis viewed Osama bin Laden as a martyr (only 28% as an oulaw)
Blog: Majority of our Pakistani Allies Grieve for Bin Laden, and Plurality See Him as a Martyr for Jihad
Zogby International 2011: “Majorities in all six countries said they viewed the United States less favorably following the killing of the Al-Qaeda head [Osama bin Laden] in Pakistan”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hbpg5ou3Qk96-aTbpJyD4K0x2b9w?docId=CNG.561caa8da42ba25c5ee1f3158a926c28.c11
Arab world’s views of U.S., President Obama increasingly negative, new poll finds - Checkpoint Washington - The Washington Post
Populus Survey: 18% of British Muslims would be proud or indifferent if a family member joined al-Qaeda.
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2006_07_04_Times_ITV.htm
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
Policy Exchange (2006): 7% Muslims in Britain admire al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/246.pdf
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell :: Daniel Pipes
Informal poll of Saudis in August 2014 shows 92% agree that Islamic State (ISIS) "conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law."
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4092/europe-islamic-fundamentalism