NDP spending scandal could hurt Mulcair's credibility


Locutus
#1


High-risk offense-as-defence strategy could leave the party paying a far higher price




As CBC's Evan Solomon reported this weekend, the New Democratic Party may soon be on the hook for the thousands of dollars in House money that it spent on satellite office staff and mailouts that have been retroactively deemed an improper use of parliamentary resources.
For the NDP, however, the lasting cost of the expense controversy in which the party has found itself may be the damage that it will do to the party's perennial efforts to style itself as the Jiminy Cricket of the Commons.

One of the few perks of having never sat on the other side of the House, after all, is being able to sit back and look smugly superior while the other two parties are frantically lobbing charges of past and present political perfidy across the aisle, interrupting the mutual destruction pact only to inject the occasional chorus of "Liberal, Tory, same old story."


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NDP spending scandal could hurt Mulcair's credibility - Politics - CBC News
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#2
Mulcair had credibility? Must have missed that memo. Getting caught stealingfrom the people is nothing new for the NDP. Neither is getting caught at it. Remember Bingo Gate?
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#3
Looks like ole Tommy the Commie has got his teat in a ringer again.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
+1
#4
So the NDP has a spending scandal....


Just one of the boys now.
 
B00Mer
Republican
+1
#5
Seriously is anyone considering the NDP even in the race.. who wants a "Citizen of France" as PM??
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

Seriously is anyone considering the NDP even in the race.. who wants a "Citizen of France" as PM??


Expect any votes that withdraw from the Dippers to migrate to the Cons... Trudeau-lite has embarrassed he and his party beyond repair.

I'm guessing that the Cons will generate an even larger majority this time
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
+1
#7
I agree NDP spending scandal could hurt Mulcair's credibility. Sad to see him drag the ship down to the level of Lib/Con cheating
 
Nuggler
+3
#8  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Looks like ole Tommy the Commie has got his teat in a ringer again.


That's just gotta hurt..............

None of them (politicos) EVER learn. None of them. EVER !

[QUOTE=Locutus;1929836]

Mouse !!

Where

There

You sure?

Rat !! Rat! Rat!

Damn!

Shall we jump up on the chairs ?

JESUS ! It's a big one !

Just Harper, Tom, relax.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Expect any votes that withdraw from the Dippers to migrate to the Cons... Trudeau-lite has embarrassed he and his party beyond repair.

I'm guessing that the Cons will generate an even larger majority this time


What's with people and their inability to see things realistically?


Any voter with a brain doesn't just jump from one party to the other based on one action or choice a party makes. They don't jump to another party based on one single screw up, but a collective of screw ups stacked up by the other party's screw ups in order to see who screwed up the least so they can try and not get screwed over the most after the next election.


Nobody votes based on who they believe will serve their interests best or do a "good job". The unfortunate reality is people vote based on who they think will screw them the least.


In comparison of all three, I think the NDP would screw up not as much as the other two. I'd still prefer if the NDP had Jack Layton, but we can't do much about that.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

What's with people and their inability to see things realistically?


Any voter with a brain doesn't just jump from one party to the other based on one action or choice a party makes. They don't jump to another party based on one single screw up, but a collective of screw ups stacked up by the other party's screw ups in order to see who screwed up the least so they can try and not get screwed over the most after the next election.


Nobody votes based on who they believe will serve their interests best or do a "good job". The unfortunate reality is people vote based on who they think will screw them the least.


In comparison of all three, I think the NDP would screw up not as much as the other two. I'd still prefer if the NDP had Jack Layton, but we can't do much about that.

Au contraire mon frere.

In this case, the Dippers were the beneficiaries of a faux pas (or series) of missteps by the Liberals. The result was that they gained many seats in Que at Lib expense

Speculation was rampant that in the next election, the NDP fortunes would suffer when the Libs got back on track.... They haven't.

You do the math on the rest.

Speculation, of course, but founded in reasonable logic
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Au contraire mon frere.

In this case, the Dippers were the beneficiaries of a faux pas (or series) of missteps by the Liberals. The result was that they gained many seats in Que at Lib expense

The only missteps by the Liberals was sticking to the same textbook process during campaigning and the same cookie cutter responses that they always had with no platform and a leader with any real personality.

Then before that, they had Dion and the Carbon Tax.

Layton made the NDP look like they knew what they were talking about, he answered questions straight forward and in plain english while everybody else just danced around issues and talked about one thing when asked about another like they always did.... and he didn't hold back punches when addressing the issues of the other parties.

The only problem was that the public wasn't going to just blindly making them jump from 3rd place to 1st place right away without first seeing how they handled opposition.

Quote:

Speculation was rampant that in the next election, the NDP fortunes would suffer when the Libs got back on track.... They haven't.

You do the math on the rest.

Speculation, of course, but founded in reasonable logic

If any political party gets and stays on track they will do well in elections.... the NDP finally did that in the last election, but since Layton died and Mulcair came in, the party has lost that identity it once had and kind of slipped back to being just one of the cookie-cutter political parties.

In my opinion, the next election will be an interesting one.

People gave the Conservatives a majority after being sick and tired of minorities and continual elections, but many are also getting a bit sick of them and their many scandals and questionable decisions.

The Liberals still don't seem like they know what they're doing and going off of Justin's name & public popularity to get back into power or at least 2nd place.

And the NDP isn't the same NDP as they once were and with this "Scandal" under their belt (all the parties have one or more scandals), it will be interesting to see who gets where.

I don't have hopes that the NDP will win the election and at best, might keep opposition if they focus and do everything they can to convince the public that they're still the same party they all liked while under Layton.

My guess is that we'll end up with another minority government as either:

Liberals Win
Conservatives Opposition
NDP 3rd

or

Conservatives Win
NDP Opposition
Liberals 3rd (but with more seats)

or

Conservatives Win
Liberals Opposition
NDP 3rd..... which will be the least likely because that's what we had for the last few years before Cons got majority and people are sick of all the same election and bickering crap.

Either way, I imagine we're in for another Minority and it will be either one of the two top options (not the 3rd if we know what's good for us)
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

The only missteps by the Liberals was sticking to the same textbook process during campaigning and the same cookie cutter responses that they always had with no platform and a leader with any real personality.

Then before that, they had Dion and the Carbon Tax.

Those were a collective of very significant missteps... Not in my lifetime have the liberals been 3rd place in a 3 horse race

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Layton made the NDP look like they knew what they were talking about, he answered questions straight forward and in plain english while everybody else just danced around issues and talked about one thing when asked about another like they always did.... and he didn't hold back punches when addressing the issues of the other parties.

That was not Layton's first rodeo... The NDP did well solely because the Libs stumbled so badly and the electorate in Que maintained such a distaste for Harper.

It was a vote that was reactionary and sent a message more so than any real support for the NDP... Hell, some college kids with no political experience and limited life experience got elected... I won't believe that it had to do with the actual Party that they ran for.



Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

In my opinion, the next election will be an interesting one.

I agree, but I think for different reasons.

My take is that the Que voters have a real decision to make and will be heavily gauging the performance of Harper on this... No, I don't really think that the Cons will take a whack of seats in Que, but I'd wager that you will see more general support for the Cons when you compare the numbers from the past 10-20 years.

Like it or not, regardless of their scandals, the Cons have steered the Canadian ship through rough waters in the last number of years and compared to the G8 and G20 counter parts, Canada has come up smelling like a rose.

Now that there is some dirty laundry for the NDP and Trudeau is making a mockery of the Liberals, the traditional anti-Con ridings will be truly forced to take a serious look at their options.


Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

People gave the Conservatives a majority after being sick and tired of minorities and continual elections, but many are also getting a bit sick of them and their many scandals and questionable decisions.

There was only 1 minority gvt.. As to the logic on why the Cons were awarded a majority, well, we can only guess.

As for scandals... Quite frankly, the Harper Cons have come across as Honest Abe when compared to the fraud and graft of the many years of previous Liberal gvt... There is absolutely no comparison on this front.


Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

The Liberals still don't seem like they know what they're doing and going off of Justin's name & public popularity to get back into power or at least 2nd place.

Trudeau has waded into the deep end of the pool on this... His stance on abortion will alienate many voters on that issue alone... A critical, tactical mistake in my opinion.

To many mistakes that he and the Libs are making, I can not see that the Libs are in any position whatsoever to form gvt (even a minority) and will likely struggle to become official opposition (my opinion)
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

That's just gotta hurt..............


For some reason, I picture those eyes with the same sort of movement as an old Richard Nixon watch....
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Those were a collective of very significant missteps... Not in my lifetime have the liberals been 3rd place in a 3 horse race

Not in your lifetime? Not in history has it happened.

Quote:

That was not Layton's first rodeo... The NDP did well solely because the Libs stumbled so badly and the electorate in Que maintained such a distaste for Harper.

The NDP under Layton had continually gained more and more seats during each election, they didn't lose seats. While the Liberals "stumbled" (I'd say they flat out failed) that did add to the amount of votes going to the NDP, but it's short sighted to not attribute much of the NDP's success to the NDP and Layton.

If any political party screws up, they obviously lose votes and those votes usually go to some other party. Your attempt to discredit the NDP's successes can be used towards every party.

If the NDP lose votes in the next election and they go towards the Liberals, then you could say the NDP Stumbled.

It's all a bit irrelevant as it can and will happen to every political party when they screw up or one simply performs better in an election.... that's how elections work.

Quote:

It was a vote that was reactionary and sent a message more so than any real support for the NDP... Hell, some college kids with no political experience and limited life experience got elected... I won't believe that it had to do with the actual Party that they ran for.

There is always a message being sent in every election based on votes. The Conservatives said to vote for them to get a majority so we no longer have to keep going back to the polls every few months.... the NDP said to vote for them in order to stop the crap continually happening between both the Liberals and Conservatives and to perhaps stop all the continual elections from happening every few months.

.... The Liberals just did the same old thing with the belief they would always remain 1st or 2nd and the fk'd that up royally while the other two parties actually tried to get people to want to vote for them.

Did the NDP gain more seats because the Liberals screwed up?

Of course they did.... extra votes from the same people don't magically pop up out of nowhere, they just move to other parties. Those extra votes the Liberals used to get also went to the Conservatives.

The main message that was sent in the last election was that the Liberals suck and that the people preferred the NDP and Conservatives much more.

All the speculative reasons behind that main message could be anything based on who you talk to and are irrelevant.

Quote:

I agree, but I think for different reasons.

My take is that the Que voters have a real decision to make and will be heavily gauging the performance of Harper on this... No, I don't really think that the Cons will take a whack of seats in Que, but I'd wager that you will see more general support for the Cons when you compare the numbers from the past 10-20 years.

I'm guessing the votes in Quebec will start to split between the Liberals and NDP, mostly because of Justin.

Quote:

Like it or not, regardless of their scandals, the Cons have steered the Canadian ship through rough waters in the last number of years and compared to the G8 and G20 counter parts, Canada has come up smelling like a rose.

The hell?

In the election before the last one, Harper continually said to voters that everything was fine, Canada wasn't in a recession like everybody else and they did everything right to protect the country.... then after he won another minority, he and his party came out and said, "Oh... yeah... we're in a Recession and we're kind of screwed. But thanks for voting us in based on our lies. Here's a budget that doesn't address the recession we're in but is a big FU to the other parties."

The only reason why Canada did better than other nations was because of already in-place protocols and precautions in bank loans and such that have been around for a long time, which other nations didn't exactly have. The Conservatives didn't magically wave a wand or do something right at the last minute to save us all.

Quote:

Now that there is some dirty laundry for the NDP and Trudeau is making a mockery of the Liberals, the traditional anti-Con ridings will be truly forced to take a serious look at their options.

Considering this "Scandal" the NDP are in compared to some of the bigger scandals of the Liberals and Conservatives, I'd still vote NDP.

Again... based on who I think would screw me over the least.

Quote:

There was only 1 minority gvt.. As to the logic on why the Cons were awarded a majority, well, we can only guess.

There is no guess, I just explained it to you.... if the Liberals can't figure it out by now why, then the Liberals won't fix their mistakes and remain in 3rd place for a long time to come.

• The people were sick of the petty bickering between the Liberals and Conservatives
• The people were sick of continually being tossed back to the polls for the same end results and the same bickering.
• The Liberals had no platform or real goals and the one goal they had, the Carbon Tax, Nobody liked.
• The Liberals had crap leaders.

Quote:

As for scandals... Quite frankly, the Harper Cons have come across as Honest Abe when compared to the fraud and graft of the many years of previous Liberal gvt... There is absolutely no comparison on this front.

Scandals, Conservative Party of Canada. 2006-2011 (Always under construction)
Scandals, Conservative Party of Canada. 2006-2011 (Always under construction) | The Exile (external - login to view)

^ That's just from 2006-2011, not counting anything in the last 3 years, which there is still plenty.

A recap of the Harper government’s first year scandals
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cana...112521300.html

After a year of Conservative scandals, why would First Nations want them running their schools?
After a year of Conservative scandals, why would First Nations want them running their schools? | rabble.ca (external - login to view)

I'm not sure what country or government you've been watching all these years.

Quote:

Trudeau has waded into the deep end of the pool on this... His stance on abortion will alienate many voters on that issue alone... A critical, tactical mistake in my opinion.

To many mistakes that he and the Libs are making, I can not see that the Libs are in any position whatsoever to form gvt (even a minority) and will likely struggle to become official opposition (my opinion)

I would agree.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+1
#15
Major gains for the NDP also came at the cost of the Bloc.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

If the NDP lose votes in the next election and they go towards the Liberals, then you could say the NDP Stumbled.

In the last election, we saw why the Libs stumbled... If the Dips or Cons stumble, we will know on an after the fact basis.

What is different is that the Libs screwed themselves via Dion and later Ignatief... It wasn't a one-off issue that made headlines at the right time, it was the culmination of many factors spanning years... Not the case with the Dips

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

It's all a bit irrelevant as it can and will happen to every political party when they screw up or one simply performs better in an election.... that's how elections work.

Of course, but there is something highly significant when a party goes from a 10+ year majority rule into obscurity within a short period of time... That is no longer the economic climate or petty politics

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

There is always a message being sent in every election based on votes.
Did the NDP gain more seats because the Liberals screwed up?

Of course, but the screw-up was big enough to transform the NDP from a virtual backwater to the official opposition.... I'm looking at the reason(s) for this and if it is possible for the Libs to reverse course under the present leadership

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Of course they did.... extra votes from the same people don't magically pop up out of nowhere, they just move to other parties. Those extra votes the Liberals used to get also went to the Conservatives.

No one suggested that this was the case.. What did pop-up is a huge swing in the voting patterns... Don't you think that this means something?... Might merit consideration and/or analysis?

You can bet that all the big tent parties think so

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

All the speculative reasons behind that main message could be anything based on who you talk to and are irrelevant.

As it always will

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

I'm guessing the votes in Quebec will start to split between the Liberals and NDP, mostly because of Justin.

Agreed, although in my opinion, had Trudeau simply toed the line, he would have been a strong contender to scare the Cons into believing that he was a real threat... Up to now, he has been fumbling in the dark and with his position on abortion and not allowing any 'alternative opinion' even as a representative, he has alienated 1/2 of Canadians (assuming people are 50-50 on the issue).


Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

The hell?

In the election before the last one, Harper continually said to voters that everything was fine, Canada wasn't in a recession like everybody else and they did everything right to protect the country.... then after he won another minority, he and his party came out and said, "Oh... yeah... we're in a Recession and we're kind of screwed. But thanks for voting us in based on our lies. Here's a budget that doesn't address the recession we're in but is a big FU to the other parties."

Were you honestly under the impression that politicians are honest?

PS - Same things happened when Chretin (and any/all leaders) operated through a major recession.... This isn't news to anyone

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

The only reason why Canada did better than other nations was because of already in-place protocols and precautions in bank loans and such that have been around for a long time, which other nations didn't exactly have. The Conservatives didn't magically wave a wand or do something right at the last minute to save us all.

That's a significant, but small part.

Canada, for whatever reason is far more than a service-based economy. In fact, this last recession allowed Canadian banks to take advantage of a bunch of M&A action in the financial sector in the US and Europe... That bodes very well for strong groups that conduct business on an international level and in a low-risk manner.

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

There is no guess, I just explained it to you.... if the Liberals can't figure it out by now why, then the Liberals won't fix their mistakes and remain in 3rd place for a long time to come.

I understood you the first time around... There certainly were those factors, but just like you stated above, "All the speculative reasons behind that main message could be anything based on who you talk to and are irrelevant."


Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Scandals, Conservative Party of Canada. 2006-2011 (Always under construction)

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Scandals, Conservative Party of Canada. 2006-2011 (Always under construction) | The Exile (external - login to view)

^ That's just from 2006-2011, not counting anything in the last 3 years, which there is still plenty.

A recap of the Harper government’s first year scandals
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cana...112521300.html

After a year of Conservative scandals, why would First Nations want them running their schools?
After a year of Conservative scandals, why would First Nations want them running their schools? | rabble.ca (external - login to view)

None of the Cons scandals were nearly as blatant, fraudulent or unapologetic as Adscam or Shawinigate.. Really, Entirely Liberal, organically grown that involved brown bags of cash and/or strong arming the head of the bank.

But lets review all the same:

Gazebo-gate: OMG!... waste of funds for preparation of a G8 conference.. Tell me it ain't so!

Irwin Cotler affair: Never heard of it

Peter MacKay's helicopter trip: Slow news day I guess... Massive scandal on using a fed helicopter as a taxi

Robo-call scandal: ... And so far, it is the NDP representative that is being sued for millions... The Cons, to date have no charges... Sheer speculation at this point

Christian Paradis' ethics problem: Not like Justine charging charities $30k for speaking fees while he was being paid to be in Parliament, eh?

F-35 debacle: Recall who initiated that contract?

Bev Oda's $16 orange juice: An excellent reason to topple a gvt... Bev paid market value (at the hotel) for an OJ... That is more than reason for a Palace Coup

PS - The recent FN 'scandal' involved the FN authority rejecting a sweet-heart deal along with all the trappings it offered... Can't hang that on Harper


Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Major gains for the NDP also came at the cost of the Bloc.

Very good point
 

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