Quebec Premier Marois would revive sovereignty push with PQ majority


Machjo
#1
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Just wait till the indigenous peoples of Quebec hold their own referenda in response. Quebec (and maybe Canada) would look like Swiss cheese by the end of the process.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#2
The key is that it would have to get a majority first.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
+1
#3
To the Cree Nation....

On behalf of all Ontarians being ripped off by Hydro One: We'll be more than happy to purchase James Bay generated power from you
 
Machjo
+1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The key is that it would have to get a majority first.

First a Quebec majority, then every First Nation in Quebec would also have to agree to separate with it. Good luck with that without years of negotiation. And if we consider that the whole point of separation is to impose a Franco-Quebec identity, I'm not sure that Franco-Quebecers would still be interested in separation if the result would be a multicultural Quebec giving equality to First Nations. Good luck with that.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
+1
#5
Separation opens the door to total separation. The Cree have James Bay and the Mohawks have St Lawrence. I'd switch to Walmart for groceries....
 
tay
+2 / -2
#6
let them go...................
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#7
I doubt these separatists are unaware that they would have a legal battle with the aboriginals, if not an all out war. I think this whole separatist BS gets brought up as a smoke screen to cover up some other nonsense they don't want the public to focus on. It is a very emotion generating topic and when emotion enters the arena, all logical thought flies out the window (as witnessed by tay's post}.
 
Machjo
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by tayView Post

let them go...................

I totally agree. If any indigenous people want to go, let them. But there wouldn't be much of Quebec or Canada left.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I doubt these separatists are unaware that they would have a legal battle with the aboriginals, if not an all out war. I think this whole separatist BS gets brought up as a smoke screen to cover up some other nonsense they don't want the public to focus on. It is a very emotion generating topic and when emotion enters the arena, all logical thought flies out the window (as witnessed by tay's post}.

I think they genuinely forget about indigenous people half of the time. They probably have never seriously thought about the question, or try to avoid thinking about it.

I doub there'd be all-out war since the new Quebec woudl still be concenred about its international reputation. But I could immagine bad blood on all sides.

But again, first they have to get a majority. I woudn't be surprised if even some sovereignists would vote against separation jsut because they've thought of all the problems involved.
 
coldstream
+3
#9
Sovereignty is a spent force.

It came along with the Quiet Revolution in Quebec and was limited as an authentic movement to college students, the artistic community, and a few professional insurgents.. all famous for their identification with peer groups, rebellion against 'authority' symbols, and an affinity for political fads. It never had any real depth.

It was at a time of revolutionary fervour throughout the West but in Quebec was bolstered by rural communites who saw the cozy Catholic character of Quebec being undermined by secular modernism in education and communication.

There's nothing like that now. And, like then, there are as many or more Quebecois pure laine who are patriotic Canadians as there are those who think they can barter a better deal for themselves through the threat of Separation.

Mind you this was never about Separation.. 'Sovereignty Association' from the start was a scam by Quebec's political class to wrest power from Ottawa, keeping all of the privileges, while shucking all of the responsibilities of Canadian citizenship... by keeping (some) of the Quebec electorate in a phony state of victimization and indignation.

Marois is an anachronism, a throwback to a failed experiment. And Canada is indivisible. The only way out, is to fight your way out.
Last edited by coldstream; Feb 8th, 2014 at 03:22 PM..
 
Machjo
#10
Honestly, I doubt many sovereignists are just pretending to be to scare the rest of Canada to favour Quebec above otehr provinces. Most who call themseves sovereignists give me the impression of meaning it. That said, they are still a minority, not to mention that the 'Values Charter' is now dividing that minority big time, with some sovereignists questioning their position. With friends like the PQ eh...
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#11
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Separation opens the door to total separation. The Cree have James Bay and the Mohawks have St Lawrence. I'd switch to Walmart for groceries....

Didn't you ever read their manifesto? ALL of Quebec has to go with them. No dissension is allowed. They also expect to continue using our money, armed forces and entitlements.
 
El Barto
+5
#13  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I doubt these separatists are unaware that they would have a legal battle with the aboriginals, if not an all out war. I think this whole separatist BS gets brought up as a smoke screen to cover up some other nonsense they don't want the public to focus on. It is a very emotion generating topic and when emotion enters the arena, all logical thought flies out the window (as witnessed by tay's post}.

exactly

Quote: Originally Posted by coldstreamView Post

Sovereignty is a spent force.

It came along with the Quiet Revolution in Quebec and was limited as an authentic movement to college students, the artistic community, and a few professional insurgents.. all famous for their identification with peer groups, rebellion against 'authority' symbols, and an affinity for political fads. It never had any real depth.

It was at a time of revolutionary fervour throughout the West but in Quebec was bolstered by rural communites who saw the cozy Catholic character of Quebec being undermined by secular modernism in education and communication.

There's nothing like that now. And, like then, there are as many or more Quebecois pure laine who are patriotic Canadians as there are those who think they can barter a better deal for themselves through the threat of Separation.

Mind you this was never about Separation.. 'Sovereignty Association' from the start was a scam by Quebec's political class to wrest power from Ottawa, keeping all of the privileges, while shucking all of the responsibilities of Canadian citizenship... by keeping (some) of the Quebec electorate in a phony state of victimization and indignation.

Marois is an anachronism, a throwback to a failed experiment. And Canada is indivisible. The only way out, is to fight your way out.

here is someone outside of Quebec who sees it clearly.
Marios is going to be in big do do soon as her hubby who has dubious dealings will soon be questioned about that which makes Marios pushing for her agenda , basically gambling. She asked for an inquiry with the construction scandal hoping to expose the Liberal involvement but her party also will be dragged in. testimonies in the inquiry have named her personally.


This may be the next best thing to getting rid of this separation deal once and for all. The economy is way more on the Quebecers mind. The rest is bs
 
BaalsTears
-1
#14
Ethno-nationalism is the most powerful force in the world today. But I don't know how it plays out in Quebec.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

Ethno-nationalism is the most powerful force in the world today. But I don't know how it plays out in Quebec.

They've been using that to emotionally blackmail cash out of the ROC for years.

Ain't working any longer and as such, the tantrums have subsided
 
Machjo
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

They've been using that to emotionally blackmail cash out of the ROC for years.

Ain't working any longer and as such, the tantrums have subsided

As I'd mentioned above, I doubt very much that most who call themselves sovereignists are just pretending. Most self-described sovereignists that I've met really do mean it. The problem though is that there are different kinds of sovereignists, from sovereignty-associationists to independentists. The values charter has also divided the sovereignty movement significantly too. But Immagine very, very few of them are just pretending to blackmail Canada.

Now that being said, some of them may want to purposely try become a burden on Canada precisely so that if they can't get the majority to vote themselves out, they could get kicked out, or at least promote enough animosity between both sides so as to boost support for their side in the province. Though that can be said to be blackmail, it's not the kind you have in mind.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

As I'd mentioned above, I doubt very much that most who call themselves sovereignists are just pretending. Most self-described sovereignists that I've met really do mean it. The problem though is that there are different kinds of sovereignists, from sovereignty-associationists to independentists. The values charter has also divided the sovereignty movement significantly too. But Immagine very, very few of them are just pretending to blackmail Canada.

Now that being said, some of them may want to purposely try become a burden on Canada precisely so that if they can't get the majority to vote themselves out, they could get kicked out, or at least promote enough animosity between both sides so as to boost support for their side in the province. Though that can be said to be blackmail, it's not the kind you have in mind.

I appreciate your opinion M, however, any objective analys*s would lead a sane person to the conclusion that Que would be transformed into a third world nation over night if they pursued that policy... And that doesn't include the calculation of the debt that they accrued as part of Canada of which they would likely be required to pay.

I say let 'em go, and perhaps even encourage them a bit with the caveat that Canada has right of first refusal to buy back Que (at what would be pennies on the dollar) when they find out that they can't exist as the sovereign nation that they pretend to be
 
Goober
Free Thinker
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

First a Quebec majority, then every First Nation in Quebec would also have to agree to separate with it. Good luck with that without years of negotiation. And if we consider that the whole point of separation is to impose a Franco-Quebec identity, I'm not sure that Franco-Quebecers would still be interested in separation if the result would be a multicultural Quebec giving equality to First Nations. Good luck with that.

First Nation voted in the 96% plus to stay. They go with the same borders they came with. Fukem if that is what they choose.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I appreciate your opinion M, however, any objective analys*s would lead a sane person to the conclusion that Que would be transformed into a third world nation over night if they pursued that policy... And that doesn't include the calculation of the debt that they accrued as part of Canada of which they would likely be required to pay.

I say let 'em go, and perhaps even encourage them a bit with the caveat that Canada has right of first refusal to buy back Que (at what would be pennies on the dollar) when they find out that they can't exist as the sovereign nation that they pretend to be

Who would buy their debt- Junk bonds run at 10 to 20 %
 
tay
-1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by gooberView Post

first nation voted in the 96% plus to stay. They go with the same borders they came with. Fukem if that is what they choose.



Who would buy their debt- junk bonds run at 10 to 20 %



who cares....let them go.........
 
Sparrow
+2
#20
Thanks alot to those who write "let them go". Let me tell you something, I am a CANADIAN and no one will ever make me change. I am a Quebecer but that comes 2nd.

The separatist movement has lost a lot of HOT air over the years and they have also lost quite a few members.
 
Machjo
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SparrowView Post

Thanks alot to those who write "let them go". Let me tell you something, I am a CANADIAN and no one will ever make me change. I am a Quebecer but that comes 2nd.

The separatist movement has lost a lot of HOT air over the years and they have also lost quite a few members.

Maria Mourani comes to mind. She essentially now sits on the federalist side fo the political spectrum out of fear of the proposed Quebec values charter. Sovereignists for an inclusive secularism has also turned on the PQ.
 
Toro
#22
After living for nearly 17 years outside the country looking in, the PQ look to be a real bush league outfit still trapped in the 1960s.

Not having to listen to these whiners bitch and complain endlessly is one of the benefits of being outside Canada because nobody gives a sh*t about them.
 

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