Rob Ford Doesn't Care About Toronto People


BornRuff
#1
Rob Ford has confirmed that he was asked by city staff to declare a state of emergency so that they could access more resources, but that he refused to do so.

Following the changes that council made last month, the Deputy Mayor would assume control in a state of emergency. A slight problem they apparently couldn't address is that Ford is still the only one who can declare an emergency, and stepping aside during an emergency certainly isn't great for his reelection plans.

So, once again we have one mans ego pitted against the entire city of Toronto, and everyone else has to find a way to work around the stubborn blob.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
I guess the clowns should have thought of this before they pissed Ford off.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#3
I suppose calling for another military snowshovel deployment is out of the question?
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#4
According to our benevolent preimier tax-and-spend, resources are available even without a state of emergency.

Now, how would a state of emergency get the power on quicker if all available resources are already working on the issue?
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#5
Sudbury Hydro sent a few crews down to help out. All we got was snow....
 
petros
+1
#6
Why can't Canadians(cough) handle a little winter?
 
BornRuff
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

According to our benevolent preimier tax-and-spend, resources are available even without a state of emergency.

Now, how would a state of emergency get the power on quicker if all available resources are already working on the issue?

People are doing their best to work around him, but it is very concerning to me that in a time like this he would refuse to give city staff what they say they need in order to get Toronto up and running as soon as possible.

What the province is offering now is different than what would happen if an emergency was called, but that gets into technical stuff that I am not really the best authority on. The Deputy City manager who requested that an emergency be called would have intimate knowledge of these issues though, and there is little reason to assume that he has political motives against the mayor(he was hired under him after all).
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
+1
#8
This is about maturity and some form of dysfunction. A mature person would set
aside differences and do what is in the interest of the people. Its not about who is
ticked off or who ticked them off. The Mayor was out of control due to some form
of dysfunction. He is a drinker and a doer of drugs and hangs out with the worst
of society and he represents a city and its image. Its not about clowns out to get
him.. He sees evil under every snowflake. A mature person would have resigned
long ago. That being said the problem really isn't that Ford doesn't care so much
as Ford is afraid. Some people are comfortable in their skin and they are who
they are. Guys like Ford identify themselves as being someone only if they have
power and control. When they don't they feel powerless. For months we have
defended or pounded on him for his actions. All too often we haven't considered
why he did what he did and why he behaved so badly. I kind of feel sorry for the
guy as he is too immature to be in the position he's in. He lacks self discipline and
self control a real leader must have.
Its not about who should or shouldn't be the Mayor it just shouldn't be Ford and
he's the only one who doesn't see that.
 
BornRuff
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

This is about maturity and some form of dysfunction. A mature person would set
aside differences and do what is in the interest of the people. Its not about who is
ticked off or who ticked them off. The Mayor was out of control due to some form
of dysfunction. He is a drinker and a doer of drugs and hangs out with the worst
of society and he represents a city and its image. Its not about clowns out to get
him.. He sees evil under every snowflake. A mature person would have resigned
long ago. That being said the problem really isn't that Ford doesn't care so much
as Ford is afraid. Some people are comfortable in their skin and they are who
they are. Guys like Ford identify themselves as being someone only if they have
power and control. When they don't they feel powerless. For months we have
defended or pounded on him for his actions. All too often we haven't considered
why he did what he did and why he behaved so badly. I kind of feel sorry for the
guy as he is too immature to be in the position he's in. He lacks self discipline and
self control a real leader must have.
Its not about who should or shouldn't be the Mayor it just shouldn't be Ford and
he's the only one who doesn't see that.

"If we refuse assent to reality: if we rebel against the nature of things and choose to think that what we at the moment want is the centre of the universe to which everything else ought to accommodate itself, the first effect on us will be that the whole universe will seem to be filled with an inexplicable hostility. We shall begin to feel that everything has a down on us, and that, being so badly treated, we have a just grievance against things in general. That is the knowledge of good and evil and the fall into illusion. If we cherish and fondle that grievance, and would rather wallow in it and vent our irritation in spite and malice than humbly admit we are in the wrong and try to amend our behaviour so as to get back to reality, that is, while it lasts, the deliberate choice, and a foretaste of the experience of Hell."
óDorothy L. Sayers, Introductory Papers on Dante
 
petros
#10
Waiting a few hours for nature to do it's job is commonplace in the rest of Canada where people actually have winter. Not calling an emergency is a good thing. I've never seen a prairie, Quebec or northern ON city grind to a halt because winter happened.
 
BornRuff
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Waiting a few hours for nature to do it's job is commonplace in the rest of Canada where people actually have winter. Not calling an emergency is a good thing. I've never seen a prairie, Quebec or northern ON city grind to a halt because winter happened.

You seriously can't remember a time that Quebec ground to a halt because of an ice storm?
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
+2
#12
Why on earth would someone make the mayor step down if there was a massive storm? That is the most flawed little bit of city council planning I've ever heard of.




So, what needed resources were not accessed because Mayor Ford was not willing to fire himself due to the weather?
 
petros
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

You seriously can't remember a time that Quebec ground to a halt because of an ice storm?

And what did they do other than take it in stride?

Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post


So, what needed resources were not accessed because Mayor Ford was not willing to fire himself due to the weather?

OT. LOTS and LOTS of OT
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Waiting a few hours for nature to do it's job is commonplace in the rest of Canada where people actually have winter. Not calling an emergency is a good thing. I've never seen a prairie, Quebec or northern ON city grind to a halt because winter happened.

And look at the laughing stock the last mayor who actually declared one became because of it. Not that is really a concern with the current mayor but still.
 
BornRuff
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Why on earth would someone make the mayor step down if there was a massive storm? That is the most flawed little bit of city council planning I've ever heard of.

So, what needed resources were not accessed because Mayor Ford was not willing to fire himself due to the weather?

Council took away his power to act in an emergency because they don't trust him with the responsibility. At the time it happened, even Ford himself agreed with them saying ďIf I would have had a mayor acting the way Iíve conducted myself, I would have done the exact same thing. Iím not mad at anybody. I take full responsibility.Ē

Refusing to give city staff what they say they need to most effectively respond to the storm seems to be a perfect example of why they chose to do this.

As for specific resources, as I said, I am not an expert on that, but the senior staff members asking for emergency powers are.
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post


As for specific resources, as I said, I am not an expert on that, but the senior staff members asking for emergency powers are.


See, the reason I ask, is because the way I see it, Toronto City Council is ALSO in a position where it wants to enact this in order to set Ford aside. That means that their reasons are not necessarily altruistic. So, in order to know if they're right or wrong, I'd need to be able to weigh their need for a state of emergency declaration, against their desire to be rid of Ford. But since no one can explain what resources they were missing, it comes out looking suspiciously heavy on the side of 'we just wanted Ford out of power'.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

People are doing their best to work around him, but it is very concerning to me that in a time like this he would refuse to give city staff what they say they need in order to get Toronto up and running as soon as possible.

What the province is offering now is different than what would happen if an emergency was called, but that gets into technical stuff that I am not really the best authority on. The Deputy City manager who requested that an emergency be called would have intimate knowledge of these issues though, and there is little reason to assume that he has political motives against the mayor(he was hired under him after all).

As I read it control of the city would go to the deputy mayor under a state of emergency so there is a good chance certain people were calling for it as just another attempt to take power from Ford without the unpleasantness or risks of going to the voters.
 
BornRuff
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

See, the reason I ask, is because the way I see it, Toronto City Council is ALSO in a position where it wants to enact this in order to set Ford aside. That means that their reasons are not necessarily altruistic. So, in order to know if they're right or wrong, I'd need to be able to weigh their need for a state of emergency declaration, against their desire to be rid of Ford. But since no one can explain what resources they were missing, it comes out looking suspiciously heavy on the side of 'we just wanted Ford out of power'.

The request didn't come from city council, it came from the deputy city manager responsible for emergency management. There is no reason to assume that he has political motivations, especially since he was hired under Mayor Ford.

If you don't trust the judgement of the staff that you hired to take care of exactly this kind of situation, what does it say about your own judgement?
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#19
There is a bit of a difference here and its in population numbers.
Sometimes an emergency needs to be called but most times it
does not. As for people out rebelling against the state of affairs
that is fine done some myself. However in Ford's case it went
way beyond the pale. It wasn't fuelled by rebellion or being on a
different course. It came down to drunkenness and addiction
that is not rebellion that is an absence of sobriety bordering on
a mental condition and its not acceptable. The two issues are not
related really except that Ford has chose revenge on many who
support him instead of those who oppose him.
 
BornRuff
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

As I read it control of the city would go to the deputy mayor under a state of emergency so there is a good chance certain people were calling for it as just another attempt to take power from Ford without the unpleasantness or risks of going to the voters.

Again, this isn't city councilors calling for this, it is the deputy city manager responsible for emergency management.

There is really no political gain for anyone in calling the state of emergency, since it would only change things for a few days. It would just help the city tackle this problem in the way that city staff identified as the best way.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#21
While others can't get their act together the populace are up to their a** in snow.
The entire city of Toronto needs to give its collective head a shake.
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
+2
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

The request didn't come from city council, it came from the deputy city manager responsible for emergency management. There is no reason to assume that he has political motivations, especially since he was hired under Mayor Ford.

If you don't trust the judgement of the staff that you hired to take care of exactly this kind of situation, what does it say about your own judgement?



You're assuming there's no political motivation.


But you're also assuming he's making the right call, based on him having been hired. Well, Ford was 'hired' too. Lots of people who are hired do crappy jobs.


So, without knowing what resources they got shorted on, the only thing I know is that Ford was expected to give up his job because of a storm.
 
BornRuff
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

You're assuming there's no political motivation.


But you're also assuming he's making the right call, based on him having been hired. Well, Ford was 'hired' too. Lots of people who are hired do crappy jobs.


So, without knowing what resources they got shorted on, the only thing I know is that Ford was expected to give up his job because of a storm.

I am not assuming anything. You are assuming political motivation and now even that he is bad at his job, and telling me to prove you wrong. The fact is there has never been a hint of evidence that John Livey is anything but an extremely competent public servant.

In an emergency we don't need our leaders preoccupied by thoughts of who might be out to get them. They need to solely focus on what is best for the city.

The fact that Ford lost his powers to act in the event of an emergency is a separate issue that should be dealt worried about when we are not in the middle of something like this.
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

I am not assuming anything. You are assuming political motivation and now even that he is bad at his job, and telling me to prove you wrong. The fact is there has never been a hint of evidence that John Livey is anything but an extremely competent public servant.

In an emergency we don't need our leaders preoccupied by thoughts of who might be out to get them. They need to solely focus on what is best for the city.


The fact that Ford lost his powers to act in the event of an emergency is a separate issue that should be dealt worried about when we are not in the middle of something like this.


Which is exactly why the choice to put conditions on it the way they did, was shoddy political maneuvering on the part of city council.


Now, the assertion is that Mayor Ford doesn't care about Toronto, and that he has cheated them out of resources through his action.


What has he denied them, and what resources were missed out on?
 
bill barilko
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Which is exactly why the choice to put conditions on it the way they did, was shoddy political maneuvering on the part of city council. Now, the assertion is that Mayor Ford doesn't care about Toronto, and that he has cheated them out of resources through his action. What has he denied them, and what resources were missed out on?

Could be access to federal funds for one.
 
BornRuff
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Which is exactly why the choice to put conditions on it the way they did, was shoddy political maneuvering on the part of city council.


Now, the assertion is that Mayor Ford doesn't care about Toronto, and that he has cheated them out of resources through his action.


What has he denied them, and what resources were missed out on?

It is Ford's choice to be paranoid and self obsessed. Council made a pretty logical choice not to entrust direction of the city in a crisis to a man who has given us good reason to worry that he may be off in a drunken stupor or high on crack when duty calls.

For the 20th time though, I am not an expert in the particulars of what resources are available in what situation, so I have to defer to the experts on that one. Ford is not an expert in these matters but there are staff at the city who are.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

And what did they do other than take it in stride?

Declared an emergency, called in the military, ground to a halt for like a month........
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+2
#27
Anything to bash Ford I guess.
 
Sal
No Party Affiliation
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Waiting a few hours for nature to do it's job is commonplace in the rest of Canada where people actually have winter. Not calling an emergency is a good thing. I've never seen a prairie, Quebec or northern ON city grind to a halt because winter happened.

yeah, think population, the elderly and the disabled

Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Anything to bash Ford I guess.

hell yeah, christmas jingles, bobble head dolls... the guy is the biggest target around....

still has 37% support though
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Anything to bash Ford I guess.

Apparently.

Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

For the 20th time though, I am not an expert in the particulars of what resources are available in what situation, so I have to defer to the experts on that one. Ford is not an expert in these matters but there are staff at the city who are.



Well, I'd prefer to not make a decision on someone's action, based on the unsubstantiated 'because I say so' of someone else. If he has cheated the city, it shouldn't be hard to explain what he cheated them out of.

Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

yeah, think population, the elderly and the disabled



Aha! A local. Maybe you can tell me... what did Ford's inaction prevent for the elderly, disabled, and population at large?
 
BornRuff
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Well, I'd prefer to not make a decision on someone's action, based on the unsubstantiated 'because I say so' of someone else. If he has cheated the city, it shouldn't be hard to explain what he cheated them out of.

The deputy city manager wanted him to declare an emergency so that they could get access to more resources. For the 21st time though, I have to defer to the experts on this one.

All I can say for certain is that city staff responsible for emergency management came to him asking him to declare a state of emergency so that they could get access to more resources, and he refused to do that. I would think that we would want all the resources that we can get our hands on at the moment.
 

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