Who is Harper really working for.


Cobalt_Kid
#1
Harper seems to be drawing some bizarre line in the sand regarding the Keystone XL pipeline and the US. What's he planning to do, invade if they decide that the project and the oil sands that would supply the crude aren't environmentally sustainable as many experts have stated.

Harper won't take no for an answer on Keystone XL - Politics - CBC News

Quote:

With the fate of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline still in the hands of U.S. President Barack Obama five years on, Prime Minister Stephen Harper told a crowd of business leaders gathered in New York that he will not take no for an answer.

Harper, who participated in a question and answer session with the Canadian American Business Council on the second day of his visit to New York Thursday afternoon, said in no uncertain terms "my view is you don't take no for an answer."

"We haven't had that but if we were to get that, that won't be final. This won't be final until it's approved and we will keep pushing forward," Harper said in his strongest statement on the proposed cross-border pipeline to date.

Harper seems almost oblivious to the serious issues around political accountability and transparency in government, he's gone to great lengths to distance himself from the scandal within his own office regarding the Senate expenses and attempted cover-up. And yet when it comes to an issue that many scientists claim presents a very real danger to all of us Harper is on the wrong side and not only that he's made it clear that he isn't open to any sort of real discussion.

Instead he's portraying anyone who doesn't agree with him as being deluded.

Quote:

Asked by the moderator why Obama was still sitting on the decision, Harper said "it's just politics."

His candour appeared to surprise the business leaders who could be heard laughing in the crowd, albeit briefly.

Harper went on to say that "bad politics make bad policy."

"I believe that in strong, advanced countries and economies like ours bad policies ultimately get reversed," Harper said, adding that there is no "plan B."

Liberal Natural Resources critic Geoff Regan was also critical of Harper's comments, describing them as "bizarre."

"Conservative mismanagement of the Keystone XL pipeline is costing Canadians’ jobs and damaging our relationship with our most important trading partner," Regan said.

If the only real politics that interest Harper are oil politics, is it any wonder this country is becoming covered in grime.

Maybe he realizes that his only real strong card is being taken off the table and he'll soon go with it.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#2
1 Trillion dollars in tax revenues over 30 years.
All he said was it was in both countries interests and politics was being played at a high level in the US Green movement.
The oil will move either by pipeline or rail tanker.
Pick which one is safer?
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#3
Which would you prefer Goobs.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
+2
#4  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Which would you prefer Goobs.

Pipelines- Harper is correct on exactly what he stated. Any idiot, aside from the partisan flack that posted this OP can see that.
And yes- I still do not like Harper, but I like the others less.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#5
Harper certainly does not work for the people of Canada and the trillion in tax revenue will be eaten up in interest to the bankers or used to bail them out. The Kid may be a party hack, but he made some valid points. The pipelines have nothing to do with people or jobs. It has everything to do with the greed of the ruling class. They couldn't care less if you all starve to death; more money for them.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
+2
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Harper certainly does not work for the people of Canada and the trillion in tax revenue will be eaten up in interest to the bankers or used to bail them out. The Kid may be a party hack, but he made some valid points. The pipelines have nothing to do with people or jobs. It has everything to do with the greed of the ruling class. They couldn't care less if you all starve to death; more money for them.

Wrong- His agenda is jobs, jobs, jobs for one thing. And I agree.

Clarke in BC will sign off on a pipeline as the Feds who reap the lions share of taxes will cut a nice deal that BC will take.

BC is in debt and running huge deficits. Read the numbers.

Clarke can throw up some roadblocks and delay a pipeline, but only for so long.

Sask will have enormous oil coming online in the next 10 years and they want to export it.
Oil will move, Clarke cannot stop rail transport.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Wrong- His agenda is jobs, jobs, jobs for one thing. And I agree.

Clarke in BC will sign off on a pipeline as the Feds who reap the lions share of taxes will cut a nice deal that BC will take.

BC is in debt and running huge deficits. Read the numbers.

Clarke can throw up some roadblocks and delay a pipeline, but only for so long.

Sask will have enormous oil coming online in the next 10 years and they want to export it.
Oil will move, Clarke cannot stop rail transport.

Harper's agenda is to do his masters bidding. You delude yourself. Jobs are just wage slavery. Most of the money ends up in the pockets of the rich and the gap between wage slaves and the ruling class gets wider with every stroke of the pen.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Harper certainly does not work for the people of Canada and the trillion in tax revenue will be eaten up in interest to the bankers or used to bail them out. The Kid may be a party hack, but he made some valid points. The pipelines have nothing to do with people or jobs. It has everything to do with the greed of the ruling class. They couldn't care less if you all starve to death; more money for them.

Greed of the ruling class?

How much do you kick-in to cover your medical costs, roads, social services.

Fact is Cliffy, the majority of the debt that is out there is to grease the wheels of people like you

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Wrong- His agenda is jobs, jobs, jobs for one thing. And I agree.

Clarke in BC will sign off on a pipeline as the Feds who reap the lions share of taxes will cut a nice deal that BC will take.

BC is in debt and running huge deficits. Read the numbers.

Clarke can throw up some roadblocks and delay a pipeline, but only for so long.

Sask will have enormous oil coming online in the next 10 years and they want to export it.
Oil will move, Clarke cannot stop rail transport.

I don't think that Clark will be getting any special deals now that East Energy is in play.

Her gamble at this point is on if she wants to let the opportunities go to other places.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Harper's agenda is to do his masters bidding. You delude yourself. Jobs are just wage slavery. Most of the money ends up in the pockets of the rich and the gap between wage slaves and the ruling class gets wider with every stroke of the pen.


 
petros
#9
Quote:

Harper won't take no for an answer on Keystone XL - Politics - CBC News



Why the f*ck should he back down? He's doing it for your benefit, not his.

Justin Trudeau is 100% behind it too and wants to ramp up oil sands development on the SK side which is huge too.

Greens and Elizabeth Maybe are for oil, they even use BP's logo for their own to prove it.

That leaves the NDPQ. Does Quebec have any oil? Nope but they have refineries and are hopped up on expansions built with Union Labour.
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Greed of the ruling class?

How much do you kick-in to cover your medical costs, roads, social services.

Fact is Cliffy, the majority of the debt that is out there is to grease the wheels of people like you



I don't think that Clark will be getting any special deals now that East Energy is in play.

Her gamble at this point is on if she wants to let the opportunities go to other places.




BACK on topic , CM- how is your study of the collapse of the LAAS high tech industries in Calgary coming, or are you still dusting me off?


Mr Harper's record has been at best inconsistent. You might want to contact Lockheed Martin and Honeywell Aerospace for their view on why the winning contract Canadian firms were suddenly banned as contract providers.

Nah, you'll just blow it off with more 'snark'.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

BACK on topic , CM- how is your study of the collapse of the LAAS high tech industries in Calgary coming, or are you still dusting me off?

I have carefully studied the situation and have come to the definitive conclusion that Omar Khadr is the sole source of the LAAS high tech failure.

PS - You want to talk about this (with someone that might care) - start a thread on it

Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

Mr Harper's record has been at best inconsistent. You might want to contact Lockheed Martin and Honeywell Aerospace for their view on why the winning contract Canadian firms were suddenly banned as contract providers.

It really bothers you that Canada is doing so well in the face of the global recession and Harper has been at the wheel that entire time, doesn't it?

Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

Nah, you'll just blow it off with more 'snark'.

'Snark' is more than your issue deserves
 
mentalfloss
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Shouldn't you be preaching about how the NWO is taking over by scaring the public about global warming?
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Shouldn't you be preaching about how the NWO is taking over by scaring the public about global warming?


They're not scaring anyone... Well, you maybe, but that's about it
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I have carefully studied the situation and have come to the definitive conclusion that Omar Khadr is the sole source of the LAAS high tech failure.

PS - You want to talk about this (with someone that might care) - start a thread on it



It really bothers you that Canada is doing so well in the face of the global recession and Harper has been at the wheel that entire time, doesn't it?



'Snark' is more than your issue deserves

CM, unfortunately what we get form you is the Tory party line 'snark'. 'Harper is perfect' as a religion. . Unfortunately, and the cause of 'the perfection party trailing in the national polls', is that Oil Sands are a 'one trick pony' that he lucked into.

You should give up polytheism.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cobalt_KidView Post

Harper seems to be drawing some bizarre line in the sand regarding the Keystone XL pipeline and the US. What's he planning to do, invade if they decide that the project and the oil sands that would supply the crude aren't environmentally sustainable as many experts have stated.

Harper won't take no for an answer on Keystone XL - Politics - CBC News



Harper seems almost oblivious to the serious issues around political accountability and transparency in government, he's gone to great lengths to distance himself from the scandal within his own office regarding the Senate expenses and attempted cover-up. And yet when it comes to an issue that many scientists claim presents a very real danger to all of us Harper is on the wrong side and not only that he's made it clear that he isn't open to any sort of real discussion.

Instead he's portraying anyone who doesn't agree with him as being deluded.




If the only real politics that interest Harper are oil politics, is it any wonder this country is becoming covered in grime.

Maybe he realizes that his only real strong card is being taken off the table and he'll soon go with it.

Its not in America's current national interest to reduce the price discount of Alberta Heavy crude at the Henry Hub. by building the XL. at this time. They have more leverage in Venezuela's tottering economy by propping it up at the Gulf Coast.

HIs 'strong Canadian stance' is a day late and a dollar short. Its why we were stampeding into the overpriced f35 contract instead of the 'Half the price, twice the benefits package' F18F.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

CM, unfortunately what we get form you is the Tory party line 'snark'. 'Harper is perfect' as a religion. . unfortunately, and the cause of 'the perfection party trailing in the national polls', is that Oil Sands are a 'one trick pony' that he lucked into.

Reading comprehension just isn't your strong suit, is it?

PS - The libs were in power for an even longer time over the existence of the oilsands.... Too bad they didn't have the brains to leverage it to their advantage like Harper has.

PPS - I can tell it really bothers you that Harper is doing so well in the global-economic thingy
.
 
petros
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Harper certainly does not work for the people of Canada and the trillion in tax revenue will be eaten up in interest to the bankers or used to bail them out. The Kid may be a party hack, but he made some valid points. The pipelines have nothing to do with people or jobs. It has everything to do with the greed of the ruling class. They couldn't care less if you all starve to death; more money for them.

You have no idea how things work or the number of jobs created do you?

Name a few post pipeline completion jobs.

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Shouldn't you be preaching about how the NWO is taking over by scaring the public about global warming?

The Aluminatti is fighting back. Just ask Locutus. He posts a couple conspiracy theories come conspiracy fact everyday but he thinks it's Obama and not the New World Odour.
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Reading comprehension just isn't your strong suit, is it?

PS - The libs were in power for an even longer time over the existence of the oilsands.... Too bad they didn't have the brains to leverage it to their advantage like Harper has.

PPS - I can tell it really bothers you that Harper is doing so well in the global-economic thingy.

Actually, CM,I belonged to the Reform Party before it was boarded by pirates. In the global side, being 'open for business' by allowing firms like Huawei free access after they shucked Nortel by internal sabotage is like restocking the who-err ranch in Nevada by Virgin slave girl kidnapping. The clients just bring the pox back...
 
petros
#18
OOPSIES

I almost forgot. There was another oil train crash the day before yesterday.

Saskatchewan derailment shows need for pipelines, Premier says - The Globe and Mail

Even Greenpeace wants pipelines. Pipelines will lower the price of bunker fuel for their whaler ramming exploits.

Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

Actually, CM,I belonged to the Reform Party before it was boarded by pirates.

Ahhhh "Grassroots". I smoke the flowers not the roots.
 
Zipperfish
No Party Affiliation
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

1 Trillion dollars in tax revenues over 30 years.
All he said was it was in both countries interests and politics was being played at a high level in the US Green movement.
The oil will move either by pipeline or rail tanker.
Pick which one is safer?

Rail has more accidents but spills less overall. Rail also coists a lot more energy to ship per barrel.

But really, you think an ultimatum to the US will help? "You are going to take our oil one way or another?" I personally don't think so.

Youa re right, it's jobs, jobs,. jobs for Stepehen Harper. He's assiduously courted his image as environmental laggard, and now he has to wear that image. But people do care about the envirnoment. It's not all about money.
 
petros
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

Rail has more accidents but spills less overall. Rail also coists a lot more energy to ship per barrel.

But really, you think an ultimatum to the US will help? "You are going to take our oil one way or another?" I personally don't think so.

Youa re right, it's jobs, jobs,. jobs for Stepehen Harper. He's assiduously courted his image as environmental laggard, and now he has to wear that image. But people do care about the envirnoment. It's not all about money.

Is that like being a little bit pregnant? Add up all the derailments and you get a full on spill.

It's they type of oil Zipperfish. Some oil has petrochemical value that is through the roof, others are good for just fuel.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

Actually, CM,I belonged to the Reform Party before it was boarded by pirates. In the global side, being 'open for business' by allowing firms like Huawei free access after they shucked Nortel by internal sabotage is like restocking the who-err ranch in Nevada by Virgin slave girl kidnapping. The clients just bring the pox back...

Sour grapes buddy

Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

Rail has more accidents but spills less overall. Rail also coists a lot more energy to ship per barrel.

But really, you think an ultimatum to the US will help? "You are going to take our oil one way or another?" I personally don't think so.

Youa re right, it's jobs, jobs,. jobs for Stepehen Harper. He's assiduously courted his image as environmental laggard, and now he has to wear that image. But people do care about the envirnoment. It's not all about money.



Yeah - great alternative for those in Lac Megantic
Last edited by captain morgan; Sep 27th, 2013 at 11:41 AM..
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Sour grapes buddy





Yeah - great alternative for those in Lac Megantic


CM, If Lockheed Martin and Honeywell Aerospace were Canadian firms, they would be barred from the US market after LAAS and the border would be closed to their executives, A la Sherritt Gordon.

Your beloved S H could redeem his image by providing accelerated new venture tax write off for the aggrieved shareholders.
LAAS will bite him in 2015.

You really should do some research.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldtView Post

CM, If Lockheed Martin and Honeywell Aerospace were Canadian firms, they would be barred from the US market after LAAS and the border would be closed to their executives, A la Sherritt Gordon.

Your beloved S H could redeem his image by providing accelerated new venture tax write off for the aggrieved shareholders.
LAAS will bite him in 2015.

You really should do some research.


No one here on these boards; knew of, knows of, or cares about LAAS.

Sorry you lost some money on the venture - serious on that... But, LAAS will not make the radar on the next election in any way, shape or form.
 
Zipperfish
No Party Affiliation
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Sour grapes buddy





Yeah - great alternative for those in Lac Megantic

People often associate risk with the ease of ability required to recall an incident. So, for example, after a serial killer is arrested, people's ideas of risk from serial killers goes through the roof. Becasue it is easily recalled. This is a well known psychological phenomenon.

The relative risk of rail and piepline oil transport has been well studied. In terms of realtive probability of an accident road is the likeliest, followed by rail, then pipeline. In terms of amount spilled, pipelines, then rail then road. Overall, road spills the highest amount of oil per billion barrels shipped and pipelines spill the highest in volume total.

Pipelines, in my opinion, are the best way to move oil, but the environment matters too. You have to consider it. Whihc is the part part the Conservatvies don't seem to get.
 
Durry
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

. In terms of amount spilled, pipelines, then rail then road. Overall, road spills the highest amount of oil per billion barrels shipped and pipelines spill the highest in volume total.
get.

You got creditable studies to support this?

Or are you just talking otta your ***??
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

No one here on these boards; knew of, knows of, or cares about LAAS.

Sorry you lost some money on the venture - serious on that... But, LAAS will not make the radar on the next election in any way, shape or form.


Some subjects really are 'Kapu' for you...

LAAS will be on the radar because the same "American Partners' used the Slick Peety agency in an attempt to unload 400 million dollar plastic airplanes on Canadians. You Ain't seen ammo yet, Mr. TorrieGlorrie..

However, SINCE YOU CHALLENGED, start the LAAS thread and I'll post a full synopsis. C'mom CM, double dog dare you

(And remember , fly the Friendly skies of Boeing, where to plane don't melt when the Afterburner kicks in...)
 
Zipperfish
No Party Affiliation
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

You got creditable studies to support this?

Or are you just talking otta your ***??

There's no shortage of studies and staistics adn they are readily found on Google.

Here's one:

Oil Spills By Mode Of Transport - Business Insider



There's more factors invovled in developing a sound energy policy. One si safety: Pipelines don't tend to traverse populated areas as much as railways do. Railways often carry other dangerous goods that can react in a spill. Train derailments are more likely to invovle explosion or fire. And it costs a lot more energy and moeny to move things by train.

Leak detection on trains is far better--operators tend to know fairly quickly when something has gone wrong. Leak detection for pipelines is abysmal--a primary reason why spills from pipelines tend to be larger.
 
Durry
#28
Well these are American stats. Our pipelines are often built to a different code and operated to a different standard.
Not sure one can just make a blanket comparison.
 
Zipperfish
No Party Affiliation
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Well these are American stats. Our pipelines are often built to a different code and operated to a different standard.
Not sure one can just make a blanket comparison.

Not sure either, but unless you can come up with better statistics, I'm sticking with those. I checked Environment Canada--they used to have a summary of spill events in Canada. But that's disappeared.
 
Cobalt_Kid
+1
#30
Apart from the spill issue, the oil sands themselves are hardly sustainable from a long term view. Harper and those he shills for may be experts at spinning or ignoring the science on climate change, but that doesn't make it go away.

One of the roadblocks he's running into in trying to get to Keystone XL rammed through is he can't control the message in the US and people there are rightfully protecting their long term interests. Large areas of North America are likely going to become much less habitable in coming decades, it's a scam to claim that we can still engage in carbon intensive activity like the oil sands and still conserve a lot of the benefit we currently enjoy from what has been a relatively benign environment. Extremes like we saw with the flooding in Calgary and Toronto are likely to become much more common as well as water scarcity and habitat change that will make some areas virtually uninhabitable.

Harper may be thinking what's best for next fiscal quarter or more likely what's going to get him elected again in 2015, but he has almost complete blinders on regarding significant changes that are already underway. It borders on the criminal to focus on such a narrow interest, we need to be looking seriously at how to move off of all fossil fuels eventually, starting with coal and unconventional oil, which are the dirtiest. It doesn't matter what the short-term economics say if the mid to long term indicate looming catastrophe, both on an economic and environmental scale.

Harper is a second generation Oil man, we really need someone who isn't stuck in that past to lead us into the future, not stampede us over a cliff which is what I think Harper and his people are doing. You don't go to the effort of taking almost complete control of the political structure of a nation while stifling free expression of information without a reason, and I think we see it here with Harper showing what his real agenda is all about. Protect the oil interests at all cost in Canada, even if that means the end of much of what makes this nation so amazing.
 
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