Conservatives continue to soften tone on Northern Gateway pipeline

[mentalfloss]

Still committed to that bet, petros?

Conservatives continue to soften tone on Northern Gateway pipeline

OTTAWA—The federal government expressed concerns Thursday about the safety record of oil pipelines as the Harper Conservatives continued to soften their once gung-ho attitude toward building a pipeline through northern British Columbia.

“There have been some recent spills and as a government we’re not happy with that,” Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver told CBC-TV.

He seemed to be referring to two recent oil spills from Enbridge pipelines. In one, a pipeline leaked about 1,200 barrels of crude oil into a rural Wisconsin field last month. In another, 840,000 gallons of oil spilled into a river in Michigan in an incident that led a U.S. official to liken Enbridge’s containment efforts to the “Keystone Kops.”

Environmentalists say the incidents sparked a large increase in political opposition to Enbridge’s proposed $6-billion Northern Gateway pipeline to carry crude from Alberta’s oilsands to the B.C. coast for shipment via supertankers.

Oliver pointed out that pipelines are the safest way to transport oil and natural gas. But he said avoiding spills has to be “absolutely a critical objective and it’s very important the industry agree” with that objective. Oliver added that he believes the industry does agree and is taking steps to improve pipeline safety.

It’s part of new political tack by the federal Conservatives, who until recently lauded the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline as a national priority that needed to be built as quickly as possible to open Asian markets to petroleum from the oilsands.

But with polls showing a majority of B.C. residents opposed to Northern Gateway, the Harper government has adjusted its approach. Last week Heritage Minister James Moore punctured the federal Conservatives’ pro-Enbridge stance by questioning the company’s ability to convince the public that Northern Gateway would be safe. And on Tuesday Harper for the first time sounded a cautious note, suggesting the pipeline would not be built unless it is approved in an independent review by the National Energy Board, which is currently holding public hearings on the project.

Enbridge is promising to spend an extra $500 million to improve pipeline safety.

But in Ottawa Thursday, an industry official said widespread concern about high-profile ruptures of Canadian pipelines shows the industry has not done a good enough job of demonstrating how safe it really is.

Brenda Kenny, president of the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, said her members must do more to assure Canadians that the industry has a safe record and is trying to eliminate what she said is an already small number of serious spills.

“I think every company recognizes that there are some very important questions being asked and we need to be a lot more transparent,” she told a news conference.

“I would fully acknowledge that as a sector, we’re coming to this late in terms of going public with the programs we have under way . . . we should have been more communicative earlier.”

Conservatives continue to soften tone on Northern Gateway pipeline

 

[petros]

Still up on that bet, petros? :wink:

Why would I back down from a sure thing?

 

[mentalfloss]

Why would I back down from a sure thing?

So what do I get if I ween?

 

[Mowich]

Still committed to that bet, petros?

Conservatives continue to soften tone on Northern Gateway pipeline

OTTAWA—The federal government expressed concerns Thursday about the safety record of oil pipelines as the Harper Conservatives continued to soften their once gung-ho attitude toward building a pipeline through northern British Columbia.

“There have been some recent spills and as a government we’re not happy with that,” Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver told CBC-TV.

He seemed to be referring to two recent oil spills from Enbridge pipelines. In one, a pipeline leaked about 1,200 barrels of crude oil into a rural Wisconsin field last month. In another, 840,000 gallons of oil spilled into a river in Michigan in an incident that led a U.S. official to liken Enbridge’s containment efforts to the “Keystone Kops.”

Environmentalists say the incidents sparked a large increase in political opposition to Enbridge’s proposed $6-billion Northern Gateway pipeline to carry crude from Alberta’s oilsands to the B.C. coast for shipment via supertankers.

Oliver pointed out that pipelines are the safest way to transport oil and natural gas. But he said avoiding spills has to be “absolutely a critical objective and it’s very important the industry agree” with that objective. Oliver added that he believes the industry does agree and is taking steps to improve pipeline safety.

It’s part of new political tack by the federal Conservatives, who until recently lauded the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline as a national priority that needed to be built as quickly as possible to open Asian markets to petroleum from the oilsands.

But with polls showing a majority of B.C. residents opposed to Northern Gateway, the Harper government has adjusted its approach. Last week Heritage Minister James Moore punctured the federal Conservatives’ pro-Enbridge stance by questioning the company’s ability to convince the public that Northern Gateway would be safe. And on Tuesday Harper for the first time sounded a cautious note, suggesting the pipeline would not be built unless it is approved in an independent review by the National Energy Board, which is currently holding public hearings on the project.

Enbridge is promising to spend an extra $500 million to improve pipeline safety.

But in Ottawa Thursday, an industry official said widespread concern about high-profile ruptures of Canadian pipelines shows the industry has not done a good enough job of demonstrating how safe it really is.

Brenda Kenny, president of the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, said her members must do more to assure Canadians that the industry has a safe record and is trying to eliminate what she said is an already small number of serious spills.

“I think every company recognizes that there are some very important questions being asked and we need to be a lot more transparent,” she told a news conference.

“I would fully acknowledge that as a sector, we’re coming to this late in terms of going public with the programs we have under way . . . we should have been more communicative earlier.”

Conservatives continue to soften tone on Northern Gateway pipeline

But in Ottawa Thursday, an industry official said widespread concern about high-profile ruptures of Canadian pipelines shows the industry has not done a good enough job of demonstrating how safe it really is.

Ruptures of pipelines is hardly a credible way of proving the lines are safe.

Brenda Kenny, president of the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, said her members must do more to assure Canadians that the industry has a safe record and is trying to eliminate what she said is an already small number of serious spills.

Fact is........you don't have a safe record or we would not be talking about spills. Don't just talk about it............do it.

“I would fully acknowledge that as a sector, we’re coming to this late in terms of going public with the programs we have under way . . . we should have been more communicative earlier.”

Uh, no...............you are coming late to the inspecting and upgrading of your pipelines.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

Of course this is just a bit more of Harper's cunning. The tone has not softened at all. The same lack inadequate assessment is built in: Cabinet can still make the decision regardless of the findings of any assessment.

Most importantly, tankers can still navigate the coastal waters and that is where real disaster is a possibility. Just as it has opened up the St. Lawrenece Gulf to oil exploration. A major lek there would have incalulable consequences for Maritime Canada and the North East US.

 

[beaker]

Of course this is just a bit more of Harper's cunning. The tone has not softened at all. The same lack inadequate assessment is built in: Cabinet can still make the decision regardless of the findings of any assessment.

Most importantly, tankers can still navigate the coastal waters and that is where real disaster is a possibility. Just as it has opened up the St. Lawrenece Gulf to oil exploration. A major lek there would have incalulable consequences for Maritime Canada and the North East US.

I agree, if the Cons ervatives are serious they will remove from legislation their omnibus bill that took away the right of Canadians to have a meaningful dialogue about the proposal.

 

[earth_as_one]

Apparently PM Harper has embraced science when it comes to approving pipelines.

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper says science — not politics — will ultimately determine whether the Northern Gateway pipeline proceeds,
Science, not economics, will determine fate of pipeline, Harper says

When did Harper start to embrace science? Its never been a criteria for any of his past decisions.

Pipelines burst and spill oil... and those spills can destroy people's lives. I favor building pipelines to the West Coast... but if a pipeline bursts, the fines and penalties should match the size of the event and the people involved should be fully compensated for damages.

 

[damngrumpy]

I don't wonder as to why Harper is backing away from this deal. It has nothing to do
with cunning. First of all this whole thing was floated in the same fashion as the old
robber barons used to do their deals. They rammed it down people throats, remember
the HST in BC another thing rammed down our throats. Christi Crunch instead of doing
what the people want, she put a price on the Environment and said Go Ahead as long
as we get more money.
This is not about money its about people saying NO to big business and its about to
happen more and more in many parts of this country. People don't want oil ships plying
the inland waters of our Province. These tankers are the length of four football fields.
The people said no. wisely the leader of the opposition said NO early and it gave him
traction.
The Conservatives know the HST that they helped install in BC will be part of the agenda
in the next Federal Election. Now seeing as people are so hostile they don't want two
issues to deal with. The idea no is to question the safety record of the company and just
about any other excuse they can find to justify backing away.
Part of the problem for the current Federal Government is, the economy is tightening up
and whether we like it or not, or its good or bad, Canadians are becoming more and more
nationalistic economically and pushing through an unpopular pipeline using a company
with a bad record and selling resources off shore might not sit well with an election in
tough times, preaching to a hostile audience.
The Tories have peaked and they know they have to play to the middle a bit on this one
or lose more ground which they might not be able to get back.
Gateway is going to fail, Allison Redford's idea of an east west national strategy is a good
idea regardless of party affiliation and I think it may prove to be the route governments
want to go. Christie Clark's opinion won't count for much as she has less than a year to be
BC Premier.

 

[JLM]

I don't wonder as to why Harper is backing away from this deal. It has nothing to do
with cunning. First of all this whole thing was floated in the same fashion as the old
robber barons used to do their deals. They rammed it down people throats, remember
the HST in BC another thing rammed down our throats. Christi Crunch instead of doing
what the people want, she put a price on the Environment and said Go Ahead as long
as we get more money.

The burning question is "are we better off with no pipeline or are we better of with one that operates properly and safely"?

 

[damngrumpy]

JLM unfortunately we are down to the people are mad as hell and not taking it anymore.
BC by a fair margin are opposed to any pipeline at all somewhere near sixty percent say
NO.
If politicians are going to listen to the voters and citizens they have to be listening all the
time and not when it suits them. The latest polls show that people in BC are environment
first and jobs second. Not the way I would like it but that is the way it is.
Perhaps Harper is trying to find a way to demonstrate he is listening for a change.
Clark didn't listen she put a price on people's anger and now it will be the final nail in her
political coffin, that is if the Rail Scandal doesn't come back to the front pages. She knows
a lot more about that too.

 

[JLM]

JLM unfortunately we are down to the people are mad as hell and not taking it anymore.
BC by a fair margin are opposed to any pipeline at all somewhere near sixty percent say
NO.
If politicians are going to listen to the voters and citizens they have to be listening all the
time and not when it suits them. The latest polls show that people in BC are environment
first and jobs second. Not the way I would like it but that is the way it is.
Perhaps Harper is trying to find a way to demonstrate he is listening for a change.
Clark didn't listen she put a price on people's anger and now it will be the final nail in her
political coffin, that is if the Rail Scandal doesn't come back to the front pages. She knows
a lot more about that too.

I think you are right, the main problem being, environment is more emotion driven than fact driven (although we certainly can't ignore the facts demonstrated by the Exxon Valdes and the disasters in Michigan and Wisconsin) But we certainly can't stop looking for a better way either!

 

[beaker]

I think you are right, the main problem being, environment is more emotion driven than fact driven (although we certainly can't ignore the facts demonstrated by the Exxon Valdes and the disasters in Michigan and Wisconsin) But we certainly can't stop looking for a better way either!

I don't understand your comment about the environment being more emotion than fact. But we do have to look for a better way for sure. But we know that because of the facts. We have seen the acid rain and the smog, the loss of farmland and old growth forest. We know that anthropogenic global warming and oil spills happening are facts.

The only reason that emotion has had to enter into this is that the dunderheads who have been handling our affairs from the seats of power seem to be the last to get the point. Possibly the only way to get their attention is to let them know that we are just a tad upset. So let's look for a better way. Let emotion drive the progress and reason steer it.

We are capable of balancing the two on a societal level, if not on a personal.

 

[JLM]

I don't understand your comment about the environment being more emotion than fact. .

Take a look at the idiots who sabotage logging equipment, put men out of work, jeopardize people's mortgages, without looking at the full impact of what is happening. If you are really concerned about the environment you concern yourself with trends, not with the removal of a single or handful of trees. No one minds sensibly discussing peolple's concerns but idiot who lie down on the road and chain themselves to cats and skidders don't get respect from anyone other than other idiots!

 

[gerryh]

Well, if BC is so against a pipeline to get oil to market. Then I say the people of BC should be leveled a premium on fuel to offset any increase in costs of getting our oil to market. We all must pay a price for any decision we make and higher fuel costs should be the BC cost.

 

[JLM]

Well, if BC is so against a pipeline to get oil to market. Then I say the people of BC should be leveled a premium on fuel to offset any increase in costs of getting our oil to market. We all must pay a price for any decision we make and higher fuel costs should be the BC cost.

Some British Columbians, Gerry, not all. We have to try and replace emotions with facts.

 

[gerryh]

Some British Columbians, Gerry, not all. We have to try and replace emotions with facts.

If it is only "some", then the pipeline should go through.

 

[JLM]

If it is only "some", then the pipeline should go through.

I think, eventually it probably will, people are inclined to think if they change their minds in too much of a hurry it's a sign of weakness, but in a year you might be surprised at how many are thinking "the technology has improved so much".

 

[earth_as_one]

Canadian crude sells at a huge discount because we can only move it to the US where an oil glut exists. In order for Canada to get the maximum economic benefit from our energy resources, we have to sell our energy on the international markets where we can get full price.

Canadian crude price discounts here to stay: analysts

That means Canada needs a pipeline to the west coast. But it doesn't mean the pipeline has to go to Kitimat. I prefer an oil pipeline to Prince Rupert:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...thern-gateway-in-prince-rupert/article544562/

Kitimat should be LNG only. LNG isn't as messy.

 

[beaker]

Take a look at the idiots who sabotage logging equipment, put men out of work, jeopardize people's mortgages, without looking at the full impact of what is happening. If you are really concerned about the environment you concern yourself with trends, not with the removal of a single or handful of trees. No one minds sensibly discussing peolple's concerns but idiot who lie down on the road and chain themselves to cats and skidders don't get respect from anyone other than other idiots!

If the people who perform monkey wrenching had been trying for Years to find an ear willing to listen let alone actually hear, would you have more respect for them? I understand that this is an emotional issue for you, and I agree that loggers should never have been subjected to dangerous practices. But I also think you will agree that areas like the Great Bear rainforest, or the Island old growth, would be all gone by now if attention hadn't been brought to them.

And as emotional as it is for you, I am sure that those few specific trees were chosen only because they were the next in line, and if you don't get attention there then the next trees in line will get the attention. Idiots? the ones who chained themselves to equipment or trees? I don't think so. Compared to the idiots who were and largely still are giving our logs away the chainees are going to be my friends.

 

[petros]

So what do I get if I ween?

No breast milk.

Well, if BC is so against a pipeline to get oil to market. Then I say the people of BC should be leveled a premium on fuel to offset any increase in costs of getting our oil to market. We all must pay a price for any decision we make and higher fuel costs should be the BC cost.

I'm sure the folks in Everett WA would be pickled tink to have a pipeline. Puget sound is already pooched from industry just like the waters around Kitimat are alrready pooched from sodium fluoride from aluminum smelting. That is why Kitimat was chosen. You can't kill something already dead.