Ontario’s new “tax on the rich” could reduce revenue

Locutus

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A recent study by the C.D. Howe Institute says the tax on the rich that NDP leader Andrea Horvath exacted from the minority Liberal government to pass the budget may end up reducing revenue over the long run.

As of this month, the provincial income tax rate for those earning more than $500,000 will increase from 17.4 per cent to 20.5 per cent. The combined federal/provincial rate will go from 46.4 per cent to 49.5 per cent.

C.D. Howe's Alexandre Laurin, author of the report “Ontario’s Tax on the Rich: Grasping at Straw Men,” says that wealthy taxpayers have a number of choices. Some will likely do nothing, but others may work less, migrate to a lower tax jurisdiction, engage in more aggressive tax planning, or change the timing of when and how they are paid to reduce taxes.

Laurin says the research suggests that high-income earners reduce their taxable income by about two per cent in the short term, and by more than 10 per cent in the long run as they slowly adjust to the change.

Based on this, he projects extra tax revenue of about $450 million in 2013, falling to about $200 million by 2016 (in constant dollars), to nearly zero in 2019, and to a loss of about $200 million by 2027. The province’s top one per cent of earners already shoulder more than one-quarter of all income taxes, while the bottom 75 per cent payabout 12 per cent.

The government has said the tax raise will be removed once the provincial deficit is eliminated in about six years, but the report notes that “temporary” taxes have a way of becoming permanent. For example, the Ontario surtax implemented in 1986 by a Liberal-NDP coalition has never been removed.

While there is no doubt that the affluent can more easily move to a tax haven or take advantage of tax loopholes, a 3.1 per cent tax increase on $500,000 is only $15,500. Only time will tell whether this new tax levy will be “the straw” that significantly changes the behaviour of the majority of the top tier of taxpayers.

What do you think? If you were a wealthy taxpayer, how would you react to the new Ontario taxes on the rich?

Ontario
 

captain morgan

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What do you think? If you were a wealthy taxpayer, how would you react to the new Ontario taxes on the rich?

Ontario


2 things:


  1. Restructure my existing company and move it's head office (on paper) to a jurisdiction that has a lower provincial rate.
  2. I would start to funnel my after tax dollars and any proceeds from a securities portfolio into a new entity or trust account in AB or Sask. I would still have full access and liquidity.
It may add another couple of steps into the reporting procedure, but would be well worth it
 

taxslave

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Might add in investing in more tax friendly environments. If I were to set up a new manufacturing facility, all other things being equal I would go to the jurisdiction with the best tax climate. Perhaps even set up an offshore company in a tax haven.
 

Nuggler

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Feb 27, 2006
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Probably the uber rich have already made all the tax dodges.

They might just have to pay more taxes8O

Ya think??

May as well move manufacturing offshore. No sense in having just one plant hanging around.:roll:

___________

Lord Fatty is thinking about appealing his Odour of Canada. Fatty may help Lord Fatty. Lord Fatty 1 will then set up wonderful new companies in Canada, then rape and pillage them.

Good ****ing stuff, no?

This race to the bottom thing. We stand a good chance of winning.:blob7:
 

petros

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2 things:


  1. Restructure my existing company and move it's head office (on paper) to a jurisdiction that has a lower provincial rate.
  2. I would start to funnel my after tax dollars and any proceeds from a securities portfolio into a new entity or trust account in AB or Sask. I would still have full access and liquidity.
It may add another couple of steps into the reporting procedure, but would be well worth it
Isn't that what companies in (from) ON have already done to deal with high cost of energy?
 

captain morgan

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Isn't that what companies in (from) ON have already done to deal with high cost of energy?


I would assume that if an entity was grappling with high energy costs, they would certainly consider a move if that had a big impact on the bottom-line.

What I was referring to deals more with the decision(s) that an individual could make. I'm thinking of high net worth individuals that may rotate in an industry that is highly mobile (at least where the 'office' is on paper) like finance, consulting services, etc.. You (conceivably) still operate your business out of Toronto, but the de facto HO may be else where (along with the bank accounts etc).

It's really a very simple process and would have little or no impact on your daily operations.

The point being, that simply structural alternatives exist and depending on the money that the 'entity' earns, these basic alterations could translate into significant sums each year.

This is the risk that I think that Ontario is flirting with in introducing this kind of legislation
 

Bar Sinister

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The C.D Howe institute did the study? That's the equivalent of having neo-Nazis evaluate the benefits of fascism.
 

CDNBear

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The C.D Howe institute did the study? That's the equivalent of having neo-Nazis evaluate the benefits of fascism.
Here's the report...

Ontario

Maybe you could show us where they're wrong, instead of dismissing it because of where it's from.

Even some neo Nazi's can get trains to run on time.
 
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B00Mer

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A tax on the rich would be counterproductive and shift the tax burden ultimately onto the shoulders of the middle class and small business.

The big corporations in this global economy shift and move to new regions at the drop of a hat, Nevada, Delaware, Bahamas..

Perfect example of tax avoidance would be K.C. Irving, or as most in the east know it as Irving Oil who changed his residency to the Bahamas to avoid paying income tax..

How many of you have ever heard of Kenneth Charles (K C) Irving of Canada ?

In the 1920's, K C Irving started a small service station in his native village of Bouctouche, New Brunswick, Canada. He developed that one station into an empire worth BILLIONS of dollars after WW II. When KC Irving died in 1990, at age 90, he was one of the 5 RICHEST people in North America (this was before the days of Bill Gates), right up there with J.Paul Getty and the rest. His 200 businesses include service stations with roadside restaurants, oil exploration enterprises, massive forestry & pulp and paper operations, bus and other transportation leasing companies (truck & car), newspapers, and radio and television stations. He was the major shareholder of Standard Oil of New Jersey for many years. In the 1970's, he started expanding in a big way into the New England and N-E USA service station markets.


By the way, he did what most of Canada's richest people still do - bought property in the Bahamas and lived there the last 40 years of his life to avoid Canada's taxman ! KC did NOT like paying taxes to the government !


His 3 sons, who are known as "Oily, Gassy, and Greasy", continue to run the empire from their offices in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada, looking out on the Bay of Fundy with its highest tides in the world.
Can you imagine owning ALL the radio, television, and newspaper operations in an entire country or state or province ? Well, until recently the Irvings owned them all in New Brunswick, Canada.
Do any of you have any family connections to Canada ? Maybe you are related to a fortune and don't know it ! Have a look at what this family-run empire does:
Employee magazine on-line: Welcome - Irving Oil
Website: Welcome - Irving Oil
Jobs: iol_jobs@irvingoil.ca
E-Mail: iolinfo@nbnet.nb.ca

http://genforum.genealogy.com/irving/messages/39.html
 

Bar Sinister

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Here's the report...

Ontario

Maybe you could show us where they're wrong, instead of dismissing it because of where it's from.

Even some neo Nazi's can get trains to run on time.


I'll wait and see on this. If there is a flight of capital from Ontario I will admit that the C.D. Howe Institute was correct. But I doubt I'll have to. Ontario is the industrial powerhouse of Canada. There really is no other place to go.
 

CDNBear

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I'll wait and see on this. If there is a flight of capital from Ontario I will admit that the C.D. Howe Institute was correct. But I doubt I'll have to. Ontario is the industrial powerhouse of Canada. There really is no other place to go.
Nice dodge.
 

TenPenny

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Perfect example of tax avoidance would be K.C. Irving, or as most in the east know it as Irving Oil who changed his residency to the Bahamas to avoid paying income tax..

You have to get your facts straight. He changed his residency to Bermuda, not the Bahamas. One of his grandsons lives up the street from me.

Also you might want to be aware that, while he changed his residency to Bermuda to avoid inheritance taxes, the companies generate HUGE tax dollars for the economies of NB, NS, PEI, Maine, and Canada. Huge dollars in taxes. And the company profits aren't siphoned off to offshore accounts, they are re-invested into more businesses. Unlike some wealthy people who take the money out of the business.
 

JLM

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You have to get your facts straight. He changed his residency to Bermuda, not the Bahamas. One of his grandsons lives up the street from me.

Also you might want to be aware that, while he changed his residency to Bermuda to avoid inheritance taxes, the companies generate HUGE tax dollars for the economies of NB, NS, PEI, Maine, and Canada. Huge dollars in taxes. And the company profits aren't siphoned off to offshore accounts, they are re-invested into more businesses. Unlike some wealthy people who take the money out of the business.

I'm guessing the Irvings have contributed their fair share to Canada! Like a famous man (may have been Abe Lincoln) once said, you can't help the poor by punishing the rich.
 

TenPenny

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Yes, the refinery alone exports approx 200,000 bbl per day of refined product to the US - about 64 percent of Canada's petroleum exports to the US.
 

Bar Sinister

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Nice dodge.

It's not a dodge. And to prove it I will list a number of wealthy citizens who will not be moving from Ontario to avoid any surtax.

1. Professional athletes and entertainers. These people have to be where the jobs are.
2. Corporate executives based in the many corporate HQs located in Ontario.
3. Any business owner who has a business located in Ontario.

In fact I can't think of a single person who is likely to pack up and leave due to the tax increase. However, I will be pleased to view your list of those you think will leave.

I've seen pronouncements like this from the C.D. Howe before. This organizations views any tax increase on those who fund it as a threat. The strange thing is it never produces any data to support its specious claims.