What the "Have Not" Provinces Get

[Locutus]

Every year, 'have' provinces like Saskatchewan and Alberta send billions in tax dollars to 'have not' provinces like Ontario and Quebec.

A little research into 2012 Population Estimates reveals some more interesting information:

more

Equalization Program

https://www.facebook.com/sunnewsnetwork

via sda: small dead animals: What the "Have Not" Provinces Get

 

[mentalfloss]

Gee, this doesn't seem like a one-sided thread at all.. :lol:

 

[TenPenny]

I take it that you would like to have each province as a separate country. Good luck with that.

 

[L Gilbert]

lol And every single province n territory in Canada knew about EQ payments beforehand, too. From Confederation till sometime in the mid 1950s it was even a voluntary thing.

 

[mentalfloss]

Notice how much those greedy Ontarians get in Equalization?

From the report..

The following features are worth noting:

• There are substantial disparities among provincial per capita fiscal capacities.

• Equalization substantially reduces those disparities.

• The capacities of the high capacity provinces are not affected and, in particular, are not reduced by Equalization.

• That is, the program works by bringing low capacity provinces up to the average and not by bringing down the capacity of high capacity provinces – that is, by raising the floor not lowering the ceiling.

• The federal government finances Equalization payments from its own revenues – there is no province to province transfer (or provincial government to federal government transfer).

• The portion of provincial level expenditures that might be attributed to federal funds raised from Alberta to finance Equalization is small – ranging from 1.1 per cent in Quebec to 2.9 per cent in Prince Edward Island.

http://mowatcentre.ca/pdfs/mowatResearch/51.pdf

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Every year, 'have' provinces like Saskatchewan and Alberta send billions in tax dollars to 'have not' provinces like Ontario and Quebec.

No they don't. That's an unnecessarily divisive and inaccurate way to frame the analysis, and leads to stupid pronouncements like that of a former Alberta premier who suggested the province might withdraw from the equalization program. Makes about as much sense as Edmonton and Calgary trying to withdraw from it. The transfers are from the federal government to the provinces, not from province to province, and it's funded from the federal revenue stream. The program redistributes national income, and obviously more national income is generated in wealthier jurisdictions, that's all. Nobody's getting robbed.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

There is also the missing factor in the equation. Ontario sends more than $20 billion to Ottawa than it receives in services. There are arguments about the amount. Some calculations have it at 21 billion. Some much lower.

Then, Ontario and Quebec kept Alberta and Saskatchewan solvent for many decades before those two became "have" provinces.

That is what a country is all about.

 

[L Gilbert]

That is what a country is all about.

No, it ain't. There are loads of things a country is "all about".

 

[skookumchuck]

I believe the anger has more do with provincial governments running up huge deficits to buy votes from sheeple then whining for more help from other provinces via the feds in order to stay afloat.
Our country's federal government must attempt to keep reasonable parity between regions. That is a huge task when you are dealing with all levels of politicians using your own money to bribe you.

While i understand well what the majority of politicians are all about, i would be more concerned about generations of people not having a clue or caring about any kind of fiscal responsibility either publicly or privately. They are mere fodder for the "free lunch" gang.

 

[WLDB]

Then, Ontario and Quebec kept Alberta and Saskatchewan solvent for many decades before those two became "have" provinces.

Thats pretty much what I was going to say. It is still an odd thought to me that Ontario is a "have not" province while Newfoundland is a "have" province. How things change.

 

[JLM]

There is also the missing factor in the equation. Ontario sends more than $20 billion to Ottawa than it receives in services. There are arguments about the amount. Some calculations have it at 21 billion. Some much lower.

Then, Ontario and Quebec kept Alberta and Saskatchewan solvent for many decades before those two became "have" provinces.

That is what a country is all about.

Saskatchewan maybe, Alberta I really question. Sometimes I wonder if the difference between Have and have not provinces has a bit to do with attitude! :lol:

 

[Cabbagesandking]

No, it ain't. There are loads of things a country is "all about".

What else is not included in that?

Actually it is Alberta, too. On entry to Confederation, the Prairie provinces were each awarded a per capita payment from the Central government that continued for a number of years before the unofficial equalization that was mentioned.

That money came from Ontario and Quebec.

 

[B00Mer]

Alberta and Albertan's have quickly forgotten the billions of dollars the province received during the petroleum crash of the early-1980's from Ottawa.

Now that they are back on top, they don't want to share or give back.

 

[captain morgan]

You forgot to reference the NEP on that crash in the 80's.

 

[B00Mer]

You forgot to reference the NEP on that crash in the 80's.

No I didn't, the NEP was brought in during the 1970's by the Liberals to control inflation.. I don't think it was responsible for the crash, and I didn't want to start pointing fingers at political parties..

I was just pointing out that Alberta has forgotten their hand outs.. greed makes people act weird.

 

[captain morgan]

No I didn't, the NEP was brought in during the 1970's by the Liberals to control inflation.. I don't think it was responsible for the crash, and I didn't want to start pointing fingers at political parties..

It was an ill-fated policy that drove the capital and experts to other global destinations. PET pulled the trigger on NEP a couple/three years before the crash (global) occurred, basically, the provincial sector was gutted unilaterally by the Feds.

BTW - nationalizing (essentially) one commodity won't help curb inflation that much, it would make you wonder why the gvt didn't also mandate a max price for homes, cars, gold or wheat - just sayin'

Generally the BOC will play with interest rates on that.

I was just pointing out that Alberta has forgotten their hand outs.. greed makes people act weird.

AB, as with many other Cdn jurisdictions that have received temporary handouts, have done so with an eye towards getting back on their feet. As one poster astutely pointed-out, it appears that some provinces are using equalization as a long term revenue stream to add to their already unsustainable level of gvt services... That is simply parasitic

 

[B00Mer]

That is simply parasitic

Well Quebec and Ontario has always been a parasite on the Canadian economy.. I don't think that will ever change until we get a politician strong enough to make some seriously a permanent changes to our constitution.

I don't agree with many things that had been done to the country during the 1970's - I think Trudeau screwed Canada from the get go.

1. The Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism (Multiculturalism)

2. The metric system conversion.

3. The right of self determination for Quebec, which lead to bill 101.

4. NEP

 

[lone wolf]

It was an ill-fated policy that drove the capital and experts to other global destinations. PET pulled the trigger on NEP a couple/three years before the crash (global) occurred, basically, the provincial sector was gutted unilaterally by the Feds.

BTW - nationalizing (essentially) one commodity won't help curb inflation that much, it would make you wonder why the gvt didn't also mandate a max price for homes, cars, gold or wheat - just sayin'

Wasn't another part of that called wage and price controls?


...jus' askin'

 

[captain morgan]

Well Quebec and Ontario has always been a parasite on the Canadian economy.. I don't think that will ever change until we get a politician strong enough to make some seriously a permanent changes to our constitution.

I don't agree with many things that had been done to the country during the 1970's - I think Trudeau screwed Canada from the get go.

1. The Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism (Multiculturalism)

2. The metric system conversion.

3. The right of self determination for Quebec, which lead to bill 101.

I disagree with the inclusion of Ontario in that description. By far, Ontario has contributed the lion's share of the funds over the years and to be honest, I am surprised that Ontario wasn't more vocal on the equalization issue a long time ago.

Ontario is on the slide right now although that will change in the short term, however, you have to wonder what the province could have done with the tens (or more likely hundreds) of billions of dollars that they donated over the years... I don't think that it's too presumptuous to suggest that there current difficulties would be far different if a portion of those monies were reinvested in the province over that time.

In terms of Trudeau, while he was a hugely popular politician, I don't hold a very high opinion of the man and feel that his policies were nothing short of devastating to Canada in the long term.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

It was an ill-fated policy that drove the capital and experts to other global destinations. PET pulled the trigger on NEP a couple/three years before the crash (global) occurred, basically, the provincial sector was gutted unilaterally by the Feds.

BTW - nationalizing (essentially) one commodity won't help curb inflation that much, it would make you wonder why the gvt didn't also mandate a max price for homes, cars, gold or wheat - just sayin'

Generally the BOC will play with interest rates on that.



AB, as with many other Cdn jurisdictions that have received temporary handouts, have done so with an eye towards getting back on their feet. As one poster astutely pointed-out, it appears that some provinces are using equalization as a long term revenue stream to add to their already unsustainable level of gvt services... That is simply parasitic

The NEP did not predate the Global crash. It was enacted in March 1980 and took time after that to take effect. Both unemployment and interest rates were high already because of the oil crisis that was the root of that recession.

The NEP did not lead to the mass movement of rigs from Alberta as was claimed. They were on the move everywhere and into mothballs since the slowdown was continent wide.

I am not getting into the NEP since it seems to draw out the inherent irrationality and hostility of Westerners to even point out, as Lougheed said, that it was a "win/win situation for Alberta and Canada."

As for equalization being parasitic and the idea that it should be short term, that is arrant nonsense. Why would any province want to be part of a country that requires that if be in perpetual penury and not have the services that more (temporarily( fortunate provinces have.

IT is a fundamental Right of ala citizens that they do have an equal level of services.

It strains credulity that intelligent Westerners say this when, in the past, they have been beneficiaries and there was no suggestion that it be short term or that they were "parasites." The discovery of oil does not change that ideal.