Scott Brison: If Canada doesn’t tackle income disparity, the economy will suffer

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Scott Brison: If Canada doesn’t tackle income disparity, the economy will suffer

A poll reported in the National Post recently found that more than three-quarters of Canadians believe income inequality is a problem in Canada. I recently introduced a private members motion (M-315) in parliament which asks the finance committee to undertake a study on income inequality in the country. I believe that income inequality and growing inequality of opportunity have become important economic issues for Canada that represent significant threats to the country’s economy and society.

Members of Parliament shouldn’t make this a right- or left-wing issue. Mark Cameron, a Conservative and former director of policy for Prime Minister Harper, said that income inequality should concern not only social democrats or liberals but also conservatives who are concerned about maintaining public support for free markets and limited government. American Nobel Prize winning economist Joe Stiglitz says “growing inequality is the flip side of something else: shrinking opportunity.”

Inequality is growing faster in Canada than in the United States. Several Canadian economic voices, including the Conference Board of Canada, Rotman School of Business Dean Roger Martin and Bank of Canada Governor Carney, have warned that inequality could limit our economic growth and threaten sustainable prosperity in Canada.

While inequality can be very bad for society, it can also be bad for business as it has a great economic cost. The real threat to the economy and to society is when income inequality becomes so great that it starts to threaten equality of opportunity.

All Canadians benefit from good public education and good public health care, and those essential foundation blocks of equality of opportunity are key to why we are doing better in Canada than in other countries. But there are several areas where public policy can help further.

We can reform Canada’s tax and transfer system to reduce the burden on low income Canadians and help boost people over the welfare wall. The federal government could work more closely with the provinces on a national learning agenda. Improved access to early learning and child care could help all children regardless of family income get a good start.

Canadians also need more support for life-long learning with an increased focus on trades to help them adapt and train to qualify for the jobs of today and tomorrow.

Finally, aboriginal and First Nations communities have the fastest growing and youngest population in Canada. They are also Canada’s most economically disadvantaged and socially disenfranchised. If that issue is not tackled today, then it will become a demographic and economic time bomb. We have a responsibility to narrow and eliminate the gap between aboriginal and non-aboriginal Canadians — and a vested interest in doing so.

The motion I introduced simply asks that the house of commons direct the finance committee to study income inequality, an issue considered important by an overwhelming majority of Canadians. Then we can engage the business community, which is dealing with issues such as retirement security. We can engage the NGO community, and everyone from food banks to faith based groups that are helping low income Canadians. We can examine what the provinces are doing. We can look at what some governments in other countries may be doing better. The reality is that we can learn from that kind of observation.

I am not naive enough to believe that a study is going to fix the problem. But as a start we need to understand it and then move toward building public policy that will address income inequality.

A year ago we lost the great Canadian business leader and philanthropist, Wallace McCain.

I believe Mr. McCain would want parliament to address income inequality because he would want Canada to continue to be a place where you can grow up in Florenceville, N.B., get some education, work hard and go on to conquer the world.

And then — when you succeed — it’s about giving back. It’s about building a Canada where you have the hope of a better life for your family, your children, your grandchildren and your neighbours’ children and grandchildren.

Looking out for the other guy isn’t just good for the soul. It’s good for business. The long term social costs of inequality and loss of opportunity are far more expensive than the measures to address it.

Besides, business should be concerned that the public could lose faith in a market-based economy if they no longer have hope for economic and social success. When people lose faith in the system, they can be drawn to class warfare, and to politicians offering economically dangerous, anti-market policies.

And that could be really bad for business.

If Canada doesn't tackle income disparity, the economy will suffer
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I agree income disparity in Canada and between countries is a problem too that needs to be addressed, but that does not automatically translate to support fro the NDP.

For the most part, while I'm not against helping the poor per se, I also believe we need to focus first and foremost on policies causing a structural flow of wealth from poor to rich, and only after that focus on redistributing from rich to poor if it's still needed.

I get the impression the NDP is ignoring these structural injustices (as is the Conservative Party and the Liberals and the Greens for the most part, so they're all guilty there) while focussing too much just on taking from the rich and giving to the poor. To me that's like a doctor giving medication to combat the sympoms while ignoring the root cause thereof.

If you don't deal with the root cause, tehn these bandaid solutions will need to be permanent since wealth will keep flowing from poorer countries to richer ones, and likewise within countries.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Somehow I don't think the government employees are going to be willing to take a cut to their high wages and solid gold pensions paid for in part by those with neither.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I agree income disparity in Canada and between countries is a problem too that needs to be addressed, but that does not automatically translate to support fro the NDP.

For the most part, while I'm not against helping the poor per se, I also believe we need to focus first and foremost on policies causing a structural flow of wealth from poor to rich, and only after that focus on redistributing from rich to poor if it's still needed.

I get the impression the NDP is ignoring these structural injustices (as is the Conservative Party and the Liberals and the Greens for the most part, so they're all guilty there) while focussing too much just on taking from the rich and giving to the poor. To me that's like a doctor giving medication to combat the sympoms while ignoring the root cause thereof.

If you don't deal with the root cause, tehn these bandaid solutions will need to be permanent since wealth will keep flowing from poorer countries to richer ones, and likewise within countries.

NDP?

Scott Brison is a Liberal MP.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
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For once, that bit of pond scum is correct.

Now, HOW to fix it???


Yer a good man, Colpy. Credit where credit is due, and all that.

Any more pond scum and we'll have more scum than pond.

No one's going to try too hard to fix it. No one's risking a hernia doing the heavy lifting.
 
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Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Somehow I don't think the government employees are going to be willing to take a cut to their high wages and solid gold pensions paid for in part by those with neither.

They're hardly poor!

NDP?

Scott Brison is a Liberal MP.

Regardless. As I mentioned, none of the parties seem to have any policy to deal with the systemic laws, whether at the international or national levels, that cause wealth to flow from rich to poor in the first place, but instead it seems to be a debate over whether to deal with the symptoms or not. If it's going to be that kind of debate, then I'm more conservative (no point taking from the rich to give to the poor if the structure is designed for it to flow right back to the rich anyway). Get rid of the systemic problems and we might not need to redistribute wealth in the first place, or at least not as much, much more efficient don't you think?

YEs but the problem isn't with the so called 1%. It is the disparity between government workers and the rest of the working population.

That is one problem but not the only one.

If the NDP started emphasizing eliminating the systemic laws and favour the rich, I might start looking at them more. Until then, I'll lean more liberal-conservative.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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YEs but the problem isn't with the so called 1%. It is the disparity between government workers and the rest of the working population.

What?

Income disparity does not discriminate between government and non-government workers.

That's nonsense.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
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I am not sure of what you see as the structural factors, Machjo, but, the greates part of the disparity has been from deliberate policy starting around 1980. Leaving out the assaults on Unionism that began around that time and the minimum wage and welfare rates, the Tax system has been altered to transfer wealth.

The reduction si corporate taxes began then and have been accelerated since in several budgets here and in every OECD country except Switzerland. The lost revenues have been replaced with consumption taxes.

The argument that has been made is that consumption taxes are more efficient. That may well be true but the change has not resulted in lower pricing for products as was claimed to be the trade off. The benefits have gone to corporate executives and to investors.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I am not sure of what you see as the structural factors, Machjo, but, the greates part of the disparity has been from deliberate policy starting around 1980. Leaving out the assaults on Unionism that began around that time and the minimum wage and welfare rates, the Tax system has been altered to transfer wealth.

The reduction si corporate taxes began then and have been accelerated since in several budgets here and in every OECD country except Switzerland. The lost revenues have been replaced with consumption taxes.

The argument that has been made is that consumption taxes are more efficient. That may well be true but the change has not resulted in lower pricing for products as was claimed to be the trade off. The benefits have gone to corporate executives and to investors.

In other words:

 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
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Yes indeed, the answer is to tax the ones that work hard, so we can give money to those who refuse to get an education or work. Typical Liberal "sense", blame the productive and hand everything to the non-productive.

If a person is so mentally or physically disabled that they can not work, I believe society should provide them with a decent living. But, if a person is healthy, and will not relocate to get a job; will not seek an education (including technical training) in order to qualify for a job; or simply will not work, then they should be allowed to starve.

It is THEIR choice, and frankly those kinds of behaviors (and the genes that lead to them) should be eliminated from society as a whole.

I worked damn hard, all of my life, to become financially comfortable. I came up from abject poverty and abuse, and I made my own way through life. I have mentored a number of children of poverty/abuse, and helped them get a good education.

There is simply no way that I should be taxed, so some lazy jerks can be on the dole. If you want material success, then I propose a REALLY radical solution.

LET THE LAZY BASTARDS WORK FOR WHAT THEY WANT.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I am not sure of what you see as the structural factors, Machjo, but, the greates part of the disparity has been from deliberate policy starting around 1980. Leaving out the assaults on Unionism that began around that time and the minimum wage and welfare rates, the Tax system has been altered to transfer wealth.

The reduction si corporate taxes began then and have been accelerated since in several budgets here and in every OECD country except Switzerland. The lost revenues have been replaced with consumption taxes.

The argument that has been made is that consumption taxes are more efficient. That may well be true but the change has not resulted in lower pricing for products as was claimed to be the trade off. The benefits have gone to corporate executives and to investors.

If you can read French, one systemic policy factor can be found in the Grin Report:

http://www.hce.education.fr/gallery_files/site/21/104.pdf

Pertinent quotes from the report can be found in English in the petition below:

http://lingvo.org/GRIN_en.pdf

This shows clearly how language policy alone, whether at the EU or UN level, can contribute to a redistribution of wealth from poor countries to rich to the tune of tens of billions of Euros annually via the tourism (so called langauge tourism), education (foreign students) and publishing (via dictionaries, grammars, etc.) industries, somtimes exceeding the amount transfered from rich to poor countries presented as a charity.

Incompatible educational standards between educational jurisdictions too help to distribute wealth from poor to rich, since poor students from one jurisdiction looking for work in anotehr might have to to back to school to pay well-paid professors to relearn what they know already. Having ministries of education in canada and abraod establish common standards could avoid that problem too.

Lack of worker representation on company boards of directors also contributes to an upward flow of wealth. The worker might produce so much profit for the company, with little trickling down to him. codetermination laws such as what they have in Germany or Sweden could help with that.

I'm not against raising taxes and giving to the poor per se, or redistributing wealth between wealthy and poorer countries, but that ought to be a secondary policy after we've identified and removed systemic laws that cause wealth to flow from poor to rich in the first place. Otehrwise we're merely dealing with symptoms and not the root causes. in other words, let's first identify those policies that cause wealth to flow from poor to rich in the frist place, revise those policies to correct this injustice, and once that's done, then see whether we still need to transfer from rich to poor. I bet that at least in some cases, that alone would solve the problem.

Yes indeed, the answer is to tax the ones that work hard, so we can give money to those who refuse to get an education or work. Typical Liberal "sense", blame the productive and hand everything to the non-productive.

If a person is so mentally or physically disabled that they can not work, I believe society should provide them with a decent living. But, if a person is healthy, and will not relocate to get a job; will not seek an education (including technical training) in order to qualify for a job; or simply will not work, then they should be allowed to starve.

It is THEIR choice, and frankly those kinds of behaviors (and the genes that lead to them) should be eliminated from society as a whole.

I worked damn hard, all of my life, to become financially comfortable. I came up from abject poverty and abuse, and I made my own way through life. I have mentored a number of children of poverty/abuse, and helped them get a good education.

There is simply no way that I should be taxed, so some lazy jerks can be on the dole. If you want material success, then I propose a REALLY radical solution.

LET THE LAZY BASTARDS WORK FOR WHAT THEY WANT.


Sorry, but you can't deny that some policies do discriminate unfairly in favour of certain groups over others. Remember too that you need money to get the necessary qualifications, which can cause some to fall into a catch-22.

OK, I just reread your post and it sounds like you're not against the state providing education to the poor to help them get back on their feet? If so, I think that would be reasonable.
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
0
16
If your intent as a government is to keep people as scared and ignorant of the facts as possible, is it really going to be a priority to try and address economic inequality.

The growing wealth divide in North America is the result of policies that are meant to make it easier for the few who already have most of the wealth to keep it and to maintain their political control. I doubt that legislation is going to ease this issue any time soon, the problem is closely associated with the ever growing democratic deficit and lack of honesty in politics in this country and others in the developed world.

Yes indeed, the answer is to tax the ones that work hard, so we can give money to those who refuse to get an education or work. Typical Liberal "sense", blame the productive and hand everything to the non-productive.

If a person is so mentally or physically disabled that they can not work, I believe society should provide them with a decent living. But, if a person is healthy, and will not relocate to get a job; will not seek an education (including technical training) in order to qualify for a job; or simply will not work, then they should be allowed to starve.

It is THEIR choice, and frankly those kinds of behaviors (and the genes that lead to them) should be eliminated from society as a whole.

I worked damn hard, all of my life, to become financially comfortable. I came up from abject poverty and abuse, and I made my own way through life. I have mentored a number of children of poverty/abuse, and helped them get a good education.

There is simply no way that I should be taxed, so some lazy jerks can be on the dole. If you want material success, then I propose a REALLY radical solution.

LET THE LAZY BASTARDS WORK FOR WHAT THEY WANT.

How do you feel about the wealthy that use their power and influence to get even wealthier on the public dime?

Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government ... - David C. Johnston - Google Books

Some individuals and companies that rip the American public off for billions a year.
- Warren Buffet
- Cabelas
- Walmart
- The private security industry that uses public police forces to respond to distress calls from it's clients.
- Professional sports leagues in North America that operate under no-competition rules and usually blackmail major cities to build expensive venues and give major tax breaks. Next time you hear about outrageous athelete salaries remember your tax dollars are paying for part of them.

Is it any wonder there's a growing divide between the rich and the rest of us.

It's was total lack of responsibility on the part of the financial and commerical sector that created the economic meltdown a few back, but who paid? Goldman Sachs was one of the prime drivers behind the disaster, but it was a former employee of the company that designed the $700 billion bailout package that saw $10 billion go to Goldman Sachs even though it was still solvent. executives on Wall Street are making even more now than before. In Canada the Conservatives also opened the public purse strings in a major way and billions of dollars went out with little accounting, some ended up in the hands of crime families in Quebec.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sto...truction-quebec-scandal-federal-stimulus.html

Some of the public money set aside for Canada's economic recovery has ended up in the hands of companies and individuals accused of taking part in an elaborate collusion scheme in Quebec.
An investigation by The Canadian Press of stimulus funding in three municipalities recently raided by police revealed three separate cases where companies tied to criminal charges received contracts under the multibillion-dollar federal-provincial infrastructure plan.

We don't need new legislation, we need to stop electing crooks.
 
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JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Scott Brison: If Canada doesn’t tackle income disparity, the economy will suffer

A poll reported in the National Post recently found that more than three-quarters of Canadians believe income inequality is a problem in Canada. I recently introduced a private members motion (M-315) in parliament which asks the finance committee to undertake a study on income inequality in the country. I believe that income inequality and growing inequality of opportunity have become important economic issues for Canada that represent significant threats to the country’s economy and society.


If Canada doesn't tackle income disparity, the economy will suffer

Yeah, he'd be an expert on it alright! :lol::lol:

LET THE LAZY BASTARDS WORK FOR WHAT THEY WANT.

I agree with what you say, but there may be some who don't "swallow" it! :lol:
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,041
0
36
Ontario
I understand what you are saying, Machjo. I don't agree with all of it but that is not the question I was posing. I wrote of tax policies for the past thirty years that have been designed for the internal shift of wealth from poor to rich. Policies that have been so successful that the disparity now is wider than at any thime since the 1920s - and that will end with the same calamity if we do not wake up to the agenda of the Right Wing.

You have swallowed the propaganda, Old Medic. Your post was provedto be totally wrong long ago. It really is a parroting of the public pronouncements of the Hriis crowd.

Those days brought a wealth of studies to prove ar disprove the Right Wing position and it was thoroughly debunked. Every responsible study done showed that there was no such thing as a class of freeloaders: that all groups in society, including long time and generational welfare recipients, wanted work and the dignity that goes with it. It was conclusively shown that unemployment, underploymant, and inadequate pay for the lower working classes is the disease.

Compare it to Northern Europe where none of this exists to any great degree and nobody shouts the CPC Mantras.