Tough love Conservative style

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
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It's no revelation that real wages haven't keep pace with rising costs over the years resulting in many people working at or below the subsistance level in this country and others in the developed world. But according to Jim Flaherty Canadians should be unquestioningly grateful for the little we are allowed after the wealthiest take what they're convinced is their due.

There are no bad jobs, Flaherty says - Canada - CBC News

So much for trying to create the conditions that will encourage people to want to go out and work- I'm currently undergoing re-training to find a better job - now people are going to be forced into an endless cycle of minimum wage scutwork with little chance of advancement.

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Monday new rule changes to define "suitable employment" and "reasonable" efforts at finding work have yet to come down, but as far as he's concerned people should be prepared to take pretty well any available job.
"I was brought up in a certain way. There is no bad job, the only bad job is not having a job," he told reporters. "I drove a taxi, I refereed hockey. You do what you have to do to make a living."

Are the Conservatives trying to be this insulting on purpose, or are they so distanced from the rest of us they just don't get it?
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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So much for trying to create the conditions that will encourage people to want to go out and work- I'm currently undergoing re-training to find a better job - now people are going to be forced into an endless cycle of minimum wage scutwork with little chance of advancement.

Minimum wage job means higher employee turnover in turn creates more advancement
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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It's no revelation that real wages haven't keep pace with rising costs over the years resulting in many people working at or below the subsistance level in this country and others in the developed world. But according to Jim Flaherty Canadians should be unquestioningly grateful for the little we are allowed after the wealthiest take what they're convinced is their due.

There are no bad jobs, Flaherty says - Canada - CBC News

So much for trying to create the conditions that will encourage people to want to go out and work- I'm currently undergoing re-training to find a better job - now people are going to be forced into an endless cycle of minimum wage scutwork with little chance of advancement.



Are the Conservatives trying to be this insulting on purpose, or are they so distanced from the rest of us they just don't get it?


In many areas in the Maritimes- Ont – Quebec – it has become the norm to acquire the amount of weeks needed- then they are laid off- draw Pogey (EI) –
It has become an economic sub culture – work part of the year and draw EI the rest – There are many problems with the current EI system.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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There are also a lot of folks who are off the job from freeze-up until Half-Loads come off - knowing full well they will be called back for road construction. That creates a glut of seasonal unemployment
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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It's no revelation that real wages haven't keep pace with rising costs over the years resulting in many people working at or below the subsistance level in this country and others in the developed world. But according to Jim Flaherty Canadians should be unquestioningly grateful for the little we are allowed after the wealthiest take what they're convinced is their due.

There are no bad jobs, Flaherty says - Canada - CBC News

So much for trying to create the conditions that will encourage people to want to go out and work- I'm currently undergoing re-training to find a better job - now people are going to be forced into an endless cycle of minimum wage scutwork with little chance of advancement.



Are the Conservatives trying to be this insulting on purpose, or are they so distanced from the rest of us they just don't get it?

Yes, Flaherty did not word it well, but I agree with the idea in principle with some caveats. Just make sure workers have the training and certification for the jobs available before pulling the rug from under them.
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
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In many areas in the Maritimes- Ont – Quebec – it has become the norm to acquire the amount of weeks needed- then they are laid off- draw Pogey (EI) –
It has become an economic sub culture – work part of the year and draw EI the rest – There are many problems with the current EI system.

That's nothing new and EI has been drastically reduced over the last couple of decades as have a lot of social supports...while at the same time corporate welfare has risen drastically.

Why blame the little guy for the problem?
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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That's nothing new and EI has been drastically reduced over the last couple of decades as have a lot of social supports...while at the same time corporate welfare has risen drastically.

Why blame the little guy for the problem?

Do you have links for the welfare point?
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
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Yes, Flaherty did not word it well, but I agree with the idea in principle with some caveats. Just make sure workers have the training and certification for the jobs available before pulling the rug from under them.

I'm all for creating the opportunities to allow people to succeed, but you can't force people to do so, and governments shouldn't even be trying. A lot less subsidies and support for people who already have enough would do a lot more than blaming people who often can just barely get by. If you look at the numbers, it's the people at the top who are hogging the pie, not us working class.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I'm all for creating the opportunities to allow people to succeed, but you can't force people to do so, and governments shouldn't even be trying. A lot less subsidies and support for people who already have enough would do a lot more than blaming people who often can just barely get by. If you look at the numbers, it's the people at the top who are hogging the pie, not us working class.

The stats show that the rich are getting richer in every western economy -the discrepancy in division of wealth has risen - widened on a continuous basis for at least 20 to 30 years - This is a social issue as well and needs to be addressed.
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
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Do you have links for the welfare point?

There's some good books out there, they tend to be more about America and Britain , but I think Canada also has problems with this.

Try:

Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government ... - David C. Johnston - Google Books

Unjust Deserts: How the Rich are Taking Our Common Inheritance and Why We Should Take it Back

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unjust-Rewards-Exposing-Inequality-Britain/dp/1847080936

I kind of doubt we're free from this kind of thing, it seems to be a systemic problem in the world today. It's easier to find someone to blame than to actually do something about it.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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It's no revelation that real wages haven't keep pace with rising costs over the years resulting in many people working at or below the subsistance level in this country and others in the developed world. But according to Jim Flaherty Canadians should be unquestioningly grateful for the little we are allowed after the wealthiest take what they're convinced is their due.

There are no bad jobs, Flaherty says - Canada - CBC News

So much for trying to create the conditions that will encourage people to want to go out and work- I'm currently undergoing re-training to find a better job - now people are going to be forced into an endless cycle of minimum wage scutwork with little chance of advancement.



Are the Conservatives trying to be this insulting on purpose, or are they so distanced from the rest of us they just don't get it?

Sheer socialist BS. You got that right from Mulcair didn't you? If you knew anything about running a business you would know this is not likely to happen.
Jim Sinclair was beeking off about this on the news today claiming that nurses and teachers would be forced to work in fat food joints, which is totally false because nurses are in demand. Teachers perhaps not so much in BC. Same with tradesmen. Granted the odd one may wind up working as a labourer but not a single professional is going to get a job at rotten ronnie unless they dumb down their resume since employers know they will not stay and many of them would not be able to function in such an environment. Just because an unemployed person may be required to take a lessor job than they are qualified for does not mean that an employer has to hire them.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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not a single professional is going to get a job at rotten ronnie unless they dumb down their resume since employers know they will not stay and many of them would not be able to function in such an environment. Just because an unemployed person may be required to take a lessor job than they are qualified for does not mean that an employer has to hire them.
McDonalds has Hamburger University if they feel so inclined as to aquire a chief burger flipper job.
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
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The stats show that the rich are getting richer in every western economy -the discrepancy in division of wealth has risen - widened on a continuous basis for at least 20 to 30 years - This is a social issue as well and needs to be addressed.

Yes and if you read Gar Alperovitz's Unjust Deserts, book he makes a strong case that most of the wealth today was created from knowledge gained in the past and is owned by all of us. The people who are getting filthy rich today aren't better at creating wealth than the rest of us, they're better at taking way more than their own share.

It's dishonest to suggest that getting tough with the people who have the least will make things better.

Sheer socialist BS. You got that right from Mulcair didn't you? If you knew anything about running a business you would know this is not likely to happen.
Jim Sinclair was beeking off about this on the news today claiming that nurses and teachers would be forced to work in fat food joints, which is totally false because nurses are in demand. Teachers perhaps not so much in BC. Same with tradesmen. Granted the odd one may wind up working as a labourer but not a single professional is going to get a job at rotten ronnie unless they dumb down their resume since employers know they will not stay and many of them would not be able to function in such an environment. Just because an unemployed person may be required to take a lessor job than they are qualified for does not mean that an employer has to hire them.

Prove it, one thing we do know is that the bottom can fall out of the economy with surprising suddeness and constantly removing supports leaves more and more people closer to the edge.

The problem isn't at the bottom rungs of the economy, it's at the top where most of the wealth gets skimmed off long before most of us have a chance to earn anything. Just increasing the opportunities for training and education can make a big difference as well as small business loans, but post-secondary education is rapidly becoming the right of the wealthy and the instability in the global economy can make small businesses prone to failure. We need better governance not just here but everywhere, don't tell me capitalism still works when Wall Streets execs still make billions after the appalling job they're done in recent years. In Canada we're buffered by the oil sector, but how long will that last once reality sinks in?
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Yes and if you read Gar Alperovitz's Unjust Deserts, book he makes a strong case that most of the wealth today was created from knowledge gained in the past and is owned by all of us. The people who are getting filthy rich today aren't better at creating wealth than the rest of us, they're better at taking way more than their own share.

It's dishonest to suggest that getting tough with the people who have the least will make things better.

It is not about getting tough with those that have the least. Often they work the hardest to get ahead. It is about cutting down on the numbers that abuse our generosity and good nature.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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It is not about getting tough with those that have the least. Often they work the hardest to get ahead. It is about cutting down on the numbers that abuse our generosity and good nature.

Many people overlook the working poor.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Yes and if you read Gar Alperovitz's Unjust Deserts, book he makes a strong case that most of the wealth today was created from knowledge gained in the past and is owned by all of us. The people who are getting filthy rich today aren't better at creating wealth than the rest of us, they're better at taking way more than their own share.

It's dishonest to suggest that getting tough with the people who have the least will make things better.



Prove it, one thing we do know is that the bottom can fall out of the economy with surprising suddeness and constantly removing supports leaves more and more people closer to the edge.

The problem isn't at the bottom rungs of the economy, it's at the top where most of the wealth gets skimmed off long before most of us have a chance to earn anything. Just increasing the opportunities for training and education can make a big difference as well as small business loans, but post-secondary education is rapidly becoming the right of the wealthy and the instability in the global economy can make small businesses prone to failure. We need better governance not just here but everywhere, don't tell me capitalism still works when Wall Streets execs still make billions after the appalling job they're done in recent years. In Canada we're buffered by the oil sector, but how long will that last once reality sinks in?

I know you got that from Mulcair because I heard him say esentually the same thing on the news tonight.
Anyone in Canada with an ounce of ambition can afford a university education. You might have to go and work for a while but it can and is being done every year. Just depends on your priorities.

Many people overlook the working poor.

That is a fact. But often it is their own fault.
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
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I know you got that from Mulcair because I heard him say esentually the same thing on the news tonight.
Anyone in Canada with an ounce of ambition can afford a university education. You might have to go and work for a while but it can and is being done every year. Just depends on your priorities.

That's news to me, this has been a concern of mine for the last decade or more. Everything costs more now and wages have been more or less stagnant for years unless you're in the top rungs of the ladder. Sure people can assume huge debt, but that also has negative effects on the economy down the road and is a disincentive for people to try and make a better life. We should be creating every opportunity for people to succeed instead of closing doors and then condemning people for getting caught on the outside.

It is not about getting tough with those that have the least. Often they work the hardest to get ahead. It is about cutting down on the numbers that abuse our generosity and good nature.

From what I've heard EI is a lot harder to get on and stay on now than when it was called UI. This just sounds like more poor bashing from the Conservatives to me.

I'd like to know more about corporate welfare in Canada and what's being done about that before we start knocking the supports out from under people who might very well be just keeping their heads above water as it is.