F-35s don't meet military's requirements

[mentalfloss]

Looks like the fix is in.

F-35s don't meet military's requirements

The federal government didn't follow normal procurement procedures to buy the F-35 fighter jets and the plane fails to meet at least one critical feature the government stipulated must be met, documents viewed by CBC News suggest.

CBC Power & Politics host Evan Solomon reported Monday that the exclusive new evidence reveals for the first time the Canadian military's requirements for the aircraft that are to replace the aging fleet of CF-18s.

Solomon said the statement of operational requirements, a document that has never been made public, outlines what the plane must be able to do in order to be purchased.

It describes specific mandatory characteristics without which the overall operational capability would be "unacceptably diminished."

One of the 28 mandatory requirements listed is for the plane's sensor requirements. The document says the plane must be capable of providing the pilot with 360-degree, out-of-cockpit visual situational awareness in a no-light environment.

"According to the U.S. Department of Defence there are so many problems with this feature that they're actually designing a backup. In other words, the plane can't do it," Solomon reported.

Questions are also being raised about the brief amount of time between when the statement of operational requirements was written and when Defence Minister Peter MacKay announced the purchase.

The document, referred to as "Version 1.0" of the statement of operational requirements for the "next generation fighter capability" was issued on June 1, 2010.

It would normally take one to two years after a statement of operational requirements is issued to hold a competition to find a product and sign a contract with a supplier.

But MacKay appeared on Power & Politics less than two months later, on July 16, 2010, to announce that the government was moving forward with the F-35 purchase.

The government plans to buy 65 planes from Lockheed Martin as part of a joint purchasing program with other countries.

Alan Williams, a former assistant deputy minister at the Department of National Defence and the official who signed the memorandum of understanding in 2002 that brought Canada into the Joint Strike Fighter program, said normal procedures weren't followed.

"Not only is it not normal, but it's a complete hijacking and rigging of the process," he said in an interview on Monday's Power & Politics.

"In 2006, the military and civilians recommended the F-35 to the minister and four years later, they developed their requirements, obviously rigged or wired to ensure that the only jet to meet the requirements would be the one that they recommended four years earlier," Williams said.

But Christopher Alexander, MacKay's parliamentary secretary, told Solomon that the F-35 does meet the requirements, and "that's why it's been selected."

He said it's a developmental project and that "it's not unusual for items that are being procured for the Canadian Forces not to meet every one of the developmental requirements, it's a question of relative choices."

"You take the one that meets most of them," Alexander said.

The F-35 procurement, the costliest military purchase in Canadian history, is the source of ongoing controversy and is the subject of an auditor general's report that is being released next week. The government estimates the entire purchase and associated costs will be between $14 billion and $16 billion.

F-35s don't meet military's requirements, documents show - Politics - CBC News

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I saw on TV, if heard correctly, Leon Panetta said that testing of the F-35 will continue even after a country purchases it. The costs never end. And he needs to sell planes to pay for this project.

The problem with Canadian weapons purchases are the pork barrel issues and always wanting to be chums with the USA to show that we're big. We need basic monitoring in the Arctic far more than shiny new jets that will likely never be used in combat. The arguments are so abstract discussing expensive jets, while facts on the ground just get ignored. What Canada really needs, how we will deal with issues like the melting of the Northwest Passage don't get in the news on a regular basis.

 

[Spade]

Does anyone think cutbacks on the F-35s will appear in the Thursday federal budget?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The F-35s will be lost in a Canadian muddle. Delay them into nonexistence.

 

[mentalfloss]

This file has been completely bungled by the CPC, and neither Mackay or Fantino have the courage to debate the topic in public.

 

[#juan]

This file has been completely bungled by the CPC, and neither of them have the courage to debate the topic in public.

The good old F-35

The F-35 is a hundred knots slower than the F-18 it is replacing.

The F-35 we are talking about buying is the cheapest version available.

My jet experience is many years old but terms like thrust to weight ratio and time to climb are still important. As are range
and airspeed.
From my point of view, of the aircraft being considered, both the Super Hornet and the Stealth Eagle were better
choices than the F-35. They were faster, cheaper, and had more range than the F-35.

I could say a lot more but probably, most of this has been said before.

 

[EagleSmack]

I recall the F-18 was a DUD before it was released and became one of the best fighters in the world today.

 

[Spade]

What would Diefenbaker do?

 

[MHz]

What would Diefenbaker do?

Send up a satellite and build some rail-way car sized artillery with steerable bullets that can fire over the horizon with pin-point accuracy, all purchased via the proceeds of weapon sales of the latest version of the Avro Arrow. What's that you say??? Oh, make that he is a good reason you should always have peasant revolts or at least a referendum on every important decision made by the Gov. This is 2012 not 1912.

 

[gerryh]

What would Diefenbaker do?

That question is moot as the f35 isn't a Canadian built fighter. If it was, he would scrap it to buy american.

Send up a satellite and build some rail-way car sized artillery with steerable bullets that can fire over the horizon with pin-point accuracy, all purchased via the proceeds of weapon sales of the latest version of the Avro Arrow. What's that you say??? Oh, make that he is a good reason you should always have peasant revolts or at least a referendum on every important decision made by the Gov. This is 2012 not 1912.

what does Diefenbaker and 1912 have to do with each other?

 

[damngrumpy]

What would Dief do? He would cancel the Avro Arrow the best aircraft ever made and he
did it for spite because he hated CD Howe.
This is another case of buy it and they will screw us. Its not just a Tory thing its a Federal
government thing. Let me see

1 The subs we bought from Britain were no good never worked never will
2 Remember the trucks we bought from Italy for military all round use.
Couldn't even plow snow off a runway they were no good.
3 Add a few billion for planes that don't fly, is this starting to sound familiar?

Oh well I am sure if we cancel a few social programs and make sure its harder for kids to get
student loans we can ensure we have some planes that sort of work, some subs that will be
safe in the harbour and we will get some trucks the can haul groceries to the base.

When the hell does this end?

 

[gerryh]

When the hell does this end?

When the government and the people put more importance on saving lives and making life easier over finding new and exciting ways of ending said life.

 

[Spade]

And a sea change in Ottawa. Mulcair is looking better and better!

 

[MHz]

Nothing other than he was probably ancient even then. 1912 is just 100 years back from this years, back then pony-express just lost the contract for important into to the train. Citizens have the ability to get all the knowledge Ottawa get and a voter is less likely to get corrupted because he is not running on wages.

The Avro was scrapped because the design was decades ahead of what the Americans were releasing. The 20 stages between made oddles of money for a select few companies who would have gotten zero as the contracts would be for the Avro as the base model for fast high altitude defense/offense, even the Blackbird is a delta wing design and the outboard engines do the same job as the notches in the wing do.

 

[gerryh]

Nothing other than he was probably ancient even then. 1912 is just 100 years back from this years, back then pony-express just lost the contract for important into to the train. Citizens have the ability to get all the knowledge Ottawa get and a voter is less likely to get corrupted because he is not running on wages.

He was 17 years old, numbnuts.

My god you are an idiot. The pony express and 1912? Do you EVER research your bullshyte before you post to make sure you aren't talking out your ass? The railroads had NOTHING to do with the demise of the pony express and it shut down WAY before 1912.:roll:

 

[MHz]

What would Dief do? He would cancel the Avro Arrow the best aircraft ever made and he
did it for spite because he hated CD Howe.
This is another case of buy it and they will screw us. Its not just a Tory thing its a Federal
government thing. Let me see

1 The subs we bought from Britain were no good never worked never will
2 Remember the trucks we bought from Italy for military all round use.
Couldn't even plow snow off a runway they were no good.
3 Add a few billion for planes that don't fly, is this starting to sound familiar?

Oh well I am sure if we cancel a few social programs and make sure its harder for kids to get
student loans we can ensure we have some planes that sort of work, some subs that will be
safe in the harbour and we will get some trucks the can haul groceries to the base.

When the hell does this end?

Never, the whole 'cold war' could have been fought with hardware on hand for the amount of fighting that actually happened.

We should be producing our own clear subs that can be used for whale watching and under the polar-ice 2 week cruises. That they are undetectable as the NK subs is part of the design for all the covert operation fans.

When Van Is got dumped on the military was given shovels to clear it away, how about some snowplow retired from duty in the mountain passes of the Rockies park a few in such places 'just in case' and it costs nothing as it could be a museum display piece when not in actual service, 2 weeks in 100 years. It's like you have to run the bank account dry before the next paycheck and make sure you don't buy anything that is useful after the next check gets deposited, you have to buy everything new again, ... and again, and yet again after that, etc.

 

[darkbeaver]

The aircraft have been roundly condemned by aviation experts as complete junk compared to the Russian competition. What I want to know is why don't we buy the SU 37 being the superior by far aircraft and much cheaper. Oh yeah I forgot, The International Community.

 

[MHz]

No, they keep a kill switch that only they can access. We need the ones that come with no import sticker and we need to be able to rearm them from local manufacturing, which means none during peacetime, there is no such thing as 'conquered in 6 months, not even 6 years is enough even for todays top armies. We need one twice the size of the ones Greenland and Iceland have. When was the last time they ever got invaded, or complained if they were, what's the difference today, a new ID card and life goes on.

 

[BruSan]

The Avro was cancelled because it went into cost over-runs and OTHERS convinced us it was obsolete before it came off the line with foreign orders being discouraged through diplomatic back-channels by OTHERS so that before it was completed: It's cost was exorbitant, there were no orders coming in, it's operational capabilities were said to be questionable to only the stupid pol's in charge (dief), it had to drop out of mach to deploy it's weapons systems.

The cost could have been controlled with half an effort and costs could have been re-couped by SELLING rather than giving the Orenda engine technology to Great Britain (they actually stole it along with a completed updated engine) and the mach drop-out was only of concern if you were in a dog fight with another fighter. That last was not likely to be a major concern during the cold war when it was prop driven, unescorted, Bear bombers we needed the capability to counter and it's extremely long range for the day was an asset.

In short we had developed an aircraft with more thrust out of it's engines than anything else of the day. It's internal selectable weapons magazine gave it many options of extra fuel, lower drag, varying mission options during flight without return to base for reconfig necessary etc. etc..

The test pilot who flew it with the later upgraded thrust said it was hands down the best thing in the air at the time.

It really bunches my panties when I think of the tech improvements that would have followed to keep it current along with the later loss of all those leading lights in aerospace design to the NASA program.

We cancelled it and were convinced to buy into the NORAD missile defense system using Bomarks and after building a bunch of silos those stupid missiles were never, ever, installed! How stupid was that?

But hey, our consolation is, we built a nice articulating arm for those shuttles didn't we? Sheesh!

The Bras D'or is still rotting as we write of this past debacle.

 

[MHz]

We can't even start a coup of NATO but we can certainly be a victim of it. how ****ed is that?