Healthcare system disintegration

[Elder]

:canada: Please do not condemn me but I have evinced little interest in deep politics for it is not my natural bent. Of course I know the basics but I do not follow the details as you do so i do not have your amassed knowledge or comprehension.

I had to go into hospital for 4 days and though I will not discuss it here (for now) in detail I need to know who, what and how this HealthCare system crash has come about through the policies of government. We have had several hospital closures in the Lower Mainland which has had extreme effect on the increasing population and decreasing facilities for healthcare.

What I ask from you: in the political sense who, what party, politicians, government bodies, are responsible for the hospital, clinic and healthcare facility closures? I do not have this info at my fingertips and am recovering from serious illness.

8O Can anyone explain it to me how/why this hospital care nightmare has occurred with naming of names, parties, policies and places to post or mail the very long report ,on my hospital stay, that I will write when energy has returned? I would really appreciate your expertise and assistance.

I just was released from hospital, at my demand, yesterday June 1, 2011as my life was no longer in danger from the health issues I had arrived with but my mental, emotional and physical health were being actively threatened by the conditions, policies, lack of nutritive foods, functioning technology, demented nurses, bathing facilities and ability to speak with a doctor.

I do not blame the staff (wholly) because they are caught between the system and the ailing public. However, I need to speak about this and I want Ottawa, our premier and the parties responsible to receive this info too. Though no-one may read it or care I just have to write to them about it and try.

Thank you in advance.

 

[PoliticalNick]

The 3 main people to contact are the Premier, the Minister of Health, and your local MLA. You can easily find their emails by doing a quick search of the BC govt website. Express your concerns and complaints and ask for their response. You could also CC the email to the PM and federal health minister if you feel inclined but most functions are at the provincial level. I am sure you will get the standard response about costs and funding which gives you the opportunity to then question their budgetary policy and skills. There is not much point in talking to anyone at BC medical services because they are simply bureaucrats and following the legislation and budget set out by the provincial govt.

I know it is not much help to you but I would encourage you to become far more active in contacting your govt with any complaints about budgets and legislation. Basically get in their face through multiple emails, phone calls and personal visits to their offices and demand answers and actions.

Best of luck.

 

[weaselwords]

The Feds just supply the bucks & a basic outline of minimum coverage. The province makes all the "health & wellness" decisions from doctor ratios to facilities to what disciplines get coverage.

 

[cranky]

the short answer for BC is the Liberal party of BC.

 

[wulfie68]

The Feds just supply the bucks & a basic outline of minimum coverage. The province makes all the "health & wellness" decisions from doctor ratios to facilities to what disciplines get coverage.

The issue is though, that while the Feds "just supply the bucks", the amount they supply (via transfer payments for those provinces that receive them or the transfers out to those whose economies are more robust) impacts how much your province has to spend on services. Yes, some blame lays with our regional administrators and the provincial ministries (they decide how and where the funds are spent), but there was battling over Ottawa's interference in health transfer payments going back well into the Chretien gov't.

 

[weaselwords]

There will be never enough money to satisfy all the provinces to cover their preceived needs. All the Feds can do is to come with a $ amount to cover their share of "basic needs" & portion it out on a per head basis. The provinces have to top up to "basic need" + anything over and above for their requirements.. There is no bad guy here just the fiscal reality.

 

[Cliffy]

The Socred/BC Reform/Liberals made sweeping budgetary cuts to almost all ministries the moment they came into power under Gordo. Health got a major cutback and reorganization. Everything was centralized and many hospitals were closed or their bed numbers drastically reduced. We used to have a hospital in Nakusp, now we basically have a first aid station. We have to travel 2 1/2 - 4 hours to get to a hospital. But we could afford to pay hundreds of millions of dollars on the Winter Olympics. Go figure!

 

[JLM]

The Socred/BC Reform/Liberals made sweeping budgetary cuts to almost all ministries the moment they came into power under Gordo. Health got a major cutback and reorganization. Everything was centralized and many hospitals were closed or their bed numbers drastically reduced. We used to have a hospital in Nakusp, now we basically have a first aid station. We have to travel 2 1/2 - 4 hours to get to a hospital. But we could afford to pay hundreds of millions of dollars on the Winter Olympics. Go figure!

I don't see the problem being solved anytime soon, unless we can get some "user pay" introduced into the system, but the one main obstacle to that seems to be that the poor people object to the rich people being able to buy their way into another queue. Talk about Catch 22! Our health system as is is taking over 40% of our tax dollar. I'm kind of curious what figure would be a generally accepted amount. On one hand I feel the same as you about the Olympics, but it's things like that that help hold the country together and I guess it did generate a little money and what it didn't was spent on creating jobs.

 

[Elder]

The 3 main people to contact are the Premier, the Minister of Health, and your local MLA. You can easily find their emails by doing a quick search of the BC govt website. Express your concerns and complaints and ask for their response. You could also CC the email to the PM and federal health minister if you feel inclined but most functions are at the provincial level. I am sure you will get the standard response about costs and funding which gives you the opportunity to then question their budgetary policy and skills. There is not much point in talking to anyone at BC medical services because they are simply bureaucrats and following the legislation and budget set out by the provincial govt.

I know it is not much help to you but I would encourage you to become far more active in contacting your govt with any complaints about budgets and legislation. Basically get in their face through multiple emails, phone calls and personal visits to their offices and demand answers and actions.

Best of luck.

Thank you for your detailed answer. I will certainly use the info you have graciously supplied me.

I will not become an advocate for I am 61 years of age with ongoing health issues. I try my best to eat properly and maintain my health but the condition gets the best of me at times and I must go into hospital. The last stay was november 2009 and it was fairly good experience. These last 4 days, however, were a nightmare. It was pure bedlam. I had to fight to receive clean dressings. I do not know what it is like elsewhere but men and women are thrown into the same room now which took a bit of getting used to indeed. Will not go on here but I am not a smoker, drinker of alcohol or user of drugs. I used to be able to go to the gym regularly and I have great wisdom accumulate wisdom on real proper nutrition yet I picked up a virus, unknowingly, decades ago and now far too early i face chronic health issues.

Do whatever you need to do to stay healthy for the hospitals are extremely toxic from attitudes, stress, new superbugs, demented patients and some staff, lack of beds, junk food (for sick people!) ... it is a nightmare. I was restricted to fluids and could not eat what they served me as it was broth made of salt and water, jello and sugared packaged juices. I give thanks that husband brought me kangen water, juiced raw veggies and later fruit or I would still be in that hellhole but with even worse complications.

Again thank you. Stay healthy!

The Socred/BC Reform/Liberals made sweeping budgetary cuts to almost all ministries the moment they came into power under Gordo. Health got a major cutback and reorganization. Everything was centralized and many hospitals were closed or their bed numbers drastically reduced. We used to have a hospital in Nakusp, now we basically have a first aid station. We have to travel 2 1/2 - 4 hours to get to a hospital. But we could afford to pay hundreds of millions of dollars on the Winter Olympics. Go figure!

Hi Cliffy. Thank you for your answer. I was in hospital November 2009 and on this recent stay was appalled at the disintegration in 17 months. One of the nicer nurses admitted with her head hung in shame that the medical system has fallen apart. I assured her that she was not to blame and should not feel responsiblity for the conditions and restrictions she is ordered to labour under. Her primary concern remains the patient and she feels helpless about fulfilling her mandate as a caregiver. So sad.

It is a unconscionable that your community and surrounding areas are without a hospital. What gets me is that none of the politicians, their family members or hospital administration will be fall ill and be treated as we are. I spent the first 8 hours hemorraging in a chair in ER. The saline iv caused my body to swell from under my breasts to the tips of my toes. I told them that I could not have salt due to advanced liver disease but they ignored what I said though I repeated this over 5 days. Now that I am home away from the stress and madness the swelling is abating. I will be writing a long report on it so will not say it now but it was an, at times, scary experience.

I don't see the problem being solved anytime soon, unless we can get some "user pay" introduced into the system, but the one main obstacle to that seems to be that the poor people object to the rich people being able to buy their way into another queue. Talk about Catch 22! Our health system as is is taking over 40% of our tax dollar. I'm kind of curious what figure would be a generally accepted amount. On one hand I feel the same as you about the Olympics, but it's things like that that help hold the country together and I guess it did generate a little money and what it didn't was spent on creating jobs.

the Olympics were a disgraceful waste of taxpayers hardearned money especially when faced with the reality of the new lack of healthcare.

Are you suggesting that those who cannot afford special healthcare should prepare to die? To me this is the work of darkness and our government is hand in hand with it.

 

[Bar Sinister]

It is actually quite simple. What we have in Canada is privatization of health care services by stealth. As more and more services are surreptitiously turned over to the private sector the cost of health care slowly increases. This results in a shortage of health care funds for the public system, resulting in longer wait times and declining quality of health care. This privatization of health care services is frequently carried out without tender or any attempt to determine whether the provision of health care services by the private sector is in any way more efficient or cost effective. Until governments realize that 20 years of increasing privatization has actually made the Canadian health care system less efficient and considerably more expensive health care costs will continue to rise and the waiting times in hospitals will continue to increase. Considering that Canada already has the second highest per capita cost of health care in the world this is hardly a trend we can look forward to.

 

[TenPenny]

A couple of doctors that I know have this rule for how to have good healthcare when you're a senior:
get married
stay married
have a daughter who lives nearby

Because when you're in hospital, the only people who will make sure you are looked after is your spouse and daughter.

 

[JLM]

A couple of doctors that I know have this rule for how to have good healthcare when you're a senior:
get married
stay married
have a daughter who lives nearby

Because when you're in hospital, the only people who will make sure you are looked after is your spouse and daughter.

There are exceptions to that rule depending how much money you have.

I'm of two minds about that, at first before the event I was in full agreement it was a waste now I'm not so sure.
What is the use of spending huge dollars to avoid death and sickness if we can't afford to "live".
Remember the old theory about "Survival of the fittest"? Perhaps there is something to it. Do we really want to keep bodies in suspended animation after they are hooked up to wires and tubes and yet we spend $millions doing it? It's quickly approaching the day when something is going to happen. I say give the willing wealthy the opportunity to pay. HOw much of your tax dollar are you willing to spend on health? 40%, 50%, 60%...................100%?

 

[cranky]

Alberta's STARS air ambulance use to be allowed to fly into eastern BC to pick up patients for transport to Calgary. My nephew's life was saved by this service so I make a point to seek them out every year to donate to their program which is funded 50% by charity and fund raising.

The BC Liberals passed a new policy, STARS is not allowed to move patients into Calgary unless the hospital facilities are not available anywhere in BC. In the case of my nephew, he would have died, because the closest facility in BC was Kelowna, which is a difference of 12 hours driving versus 2 hours to Calgary. I have no idea what the travel times are for air travel.....not that it matters because he barely made it to Calgary in time.

imo, when it comes to emergency and acute care in BC, the Liberals have screwed it up. Fatalities in industry are not properly addressed by the half baked idea of centralizing our health care facilities. We don't need brain surgeons in every town, but if a forklift falls on my arm and severs it, I want to know that the facilities are available to save my life.

 

[Elder]

To all of you who have taken time and consideration to answer my OP

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Because of your posts I am more cognizant of the reasons we have lost hospitals and health services and now I know who to write to in hopes that others will benefit from this dilemma in the future.

I am no longer an idealist and realize that my writings may not be viewed by anyone (in government) and may not be acted upon but at least it will be out there.

I peer down the path ahead of me and it is misty dark unlike the lightness that used to greet me prior to this experience.

Now I must learn to control the fear of being forced to go into hospital again.

A part of me says: "Don't go - just quietly die at home."

Then another part encourages me to continue on with positivity but when one is chronically ill it takes much energy.

:lol: I shall do my best to retain continuing life so husband will not be alone.

Thanks again.

Pouvez vous savoir la santé et l'abondance. (May you know health and abundance.)

 

[taxslave]

It is actually quite simple. What we have in Canada is privatization of health care services by stealth. As more and more services are surreptitiously turned over to the private sector the cost of health care slowly increases. This results in a shortage of health care funds for the public system, resulting in longer wait times and declining quality of health care. This privatization of health care services is frequently carried out without tender or any attempt to determine whether the provision of health care services by the private sector is in any way more efficient or cost effective. Until governments realize that 20 years of increasing privatization has actually made the Canadian health care system less efficient and considerably more expensive health care costs will continue to rise and the waiting times in hospitals will continue to increase. Considering that Canada already has the second highest per capita cost of health care in the world this is hardly a trend we can look forward to.

Bull. Private medical care is what is saving our system from complete breakdown. There is more than enough money spent in BC on healthcare but it is not spent wisely. There are far too many high paid administrators sucking cash out of the system. COuple that with the amount of people that come to BC to retire but have not paid a single dime into our healthcare yet get full use of the facilities and bring expensive health problems with them and the system will collapse. We can afford public health care along the lines of what we had when it was first set up. There was little technology, no transplants and not much cancer treatment. We will have to return to that and if you want more you are going to have to pay for it.

 

[YukonJack]

Canadian health care varies from province to province.

I suffered in Ontario, but I have absolutely no problem in Manitoba.

 

[JLM]

Bull. Private medical care is what is saving our system from complete breakdown. There is more than enough money spent in BC on healthcare but it is not spent wisely. There are far too many high paid administrators sucking cash out of the system. COuple that with the amount of people that come to BC to retire but have not paid a single dime into our healthcare yet get full use of the facilities and bring expensive health problems with them and the system will collapse. We can afford public health care along the lines of what we had when it was first set up. There was little technology, no transplants and not much cancer treatment. We will have to return to that and if you want more you are going to have to pay for it.

Excellent points!

 

[captain morgan]

Bull. Private medical care is what is saving our system from complete breakdown. There is more than enough money spent in BC on healthcare but it is not spent wisely. There are far too many high paid administrators sucking cash out of the system. COuple that with the amount of people that come to BC to retire but have not paid a single dime into our healthcare yet get full use of the facilities and bring expensive health problems with them and the system will collapse. We can afford public health care along the lines of what we had when it was first set up. There was little technology, no transplants and not much cancer treatment. We will have to return to that and if you want more you are going to have to pay for it.

Kudos..

The underlying issue that is rarely brought up, as it is not PC, relates to the public's insatiable demand for access to unlimited amounts of healthcare services that are in no way tied to the actual cost of the services provided. This area is mistakenly perceived as a God-given right or that "I paid taxes" therefore the expectation of the delivery of said services is owed.

Your synopsis about the role of private medical care is damn-near bang on... The biggest reason why the public is so dead-set against it is entirely based on a selfish motive that is mirrored in the sentiment: "If I can't afford it privately, no one should have it ahead of me". That remarkable mentality has done more to support the private clinics in the USA and Europe by forcing Canadian 'patients' to support the medical systems of those nations rather than provide the economic argument why those doctors should operate out of Canada (and yes, they do kick-in to the public system as well).

 

[Bar Sinister]

Bull. Private medical care is what is saving our system from complete breakdown. There is more than enough money spent in BC on healthcare but it is not spent wisely. There are far too many high paid administrators sucking cash out of the system. COuple that with the amount of people that come to BC to retire but have not paid a single dime into our healthcare yet get full use of the facilities and bring expensive health problems with them and the system will collapse. We can afford public health care along the lines of what we had when it was first set up. There was little technology, no transplants and not much cancer treatment. We will have to return to that and if you want more you are going to have to pay for it.

Sorry - you appear to have missed my point. I quite agree that health care spending in Canada is more than high enough, however, if you can find me a single example of where a private company has been able to provide medical services more cheaply and effectively than a public facility I will be very surprised. Also I was referring to the disastrous "reforms" instituted in Alberta which have resulted in soaring health care costs. This consisted of turning over numerous public health services to private for-profit corporations. This was done in the name of cost cutting and efficiency, but has achieved neither goal. Instead health care costs have continued to climb as the government pours cash into the pockets of privately owned health care providers. It has made the owners of many medical corporations very wealthy without giving much value for the money spent.

If BC is following the Alberta model (and considering the government it now has I suspect that is the case) you are probably right about the high administration costs. The Alberta government under Ralph Klein handed out dozens of high paying jobs on regional health boards to friends of the government. I suspect also, that BC has probably adopted the Alberta practice of privatizing public medical services in the name of efficiency and cost cutting without achieving either.

I fail to see why first class health services cannot be provided to Canadian citizens. If Sweden, France, Britain, and other nations can provide high tech medicine then so should Canada, especially as Canada spends much more per capita than those nations.

You may be right about the cost of dealing with retirees coming from out of province. Do you have any data on those numbers? I suspect that actual numbers might be hard to find. I also suspect that there is nothing anyone can do about it short of secession.

 

[JLM]

Sorry - you appear to have missed my point. I quite agree that health care spending in Canada is more than high enough, however, if you can find me a single example of where a private company has been able to provide medical services more cheaply and effectively than a public facility I will be very surprised. Also I was referring to the disastrous "reforms" instituted in Alberta which have resulted in soaring health care costs. This consisted of turning over numerous public health services to private for-profit corporations. This was done in the name of cost cutting and efficiency, but has achieved neither goal. Instead health care costs have continued to climb as the government pours cash into the pockets of privately owned health care providers. It has made the owners of many medical corporations very wealthy without giving much value for the money spent.

If BC is following the Alberta model (and considering the government it now has I suspect that is the case) you are probably right about the high administration costs. The Alberta government under Ralph Klein handed out dozens of high paying jobs on regional health boards to friends of the government. I suspect also, that BC has probably adopted the Alberta practice of privatizing public medical services in the name of efficiency and cost cutting without achieving either.

I fail to see why first class health services cannot be provided to Canadian citizens. If Sweden, France, Britain, and other nations can provide high tech medicine then so should Canada, especially as Canada spends much more per capita than those nations.

You may be right about the cost of dealing with retirees coming from out of province. Do you have any data on those numbers? I suspect that actual numbers might be hard to find. I also suspect that there is nothing anyone can do about it short of secession.

One other point that I don't believe has been mentioned recently that no doubt adds to the soaring health bill is that too many people use the for trivial ailments, like a cold or the flu, when these things just have to run their course.