Racism spreading to the left?

[Machjo]

We often hear of how there is much racism on the right. There there may be truth to it (and bearing in mind that even then not all on the right are racist), we seem to be seeing a creeping of it into the left too.

And again, just as I'm not saying all on the right are racist, I'm not saying all on the left are racist either. But merely that the left is no more immune to racism as the right.

For instance, recently in some economic threads, especially when discussing free trade, I've come across certain comments such as 'the Chinese taking all our jobs' or all 'our jobs moving to China', etc., and this being presented as arguments for protectionism, a classic case of 'us' vs. 'them'.

While I'm not saying all on the left are racist, it's clear that the left is no more immune to this us vs. them mentality as the right. It just manifests itself differently.

 

[CDNBear]

Spreading to the left?

It was always there.

 

[Machjo]

Spreading to the left?

It was always there.

Yeah, you're right. It's perhaps just that I've become more aware of it recently with the recent debates over free trde in the forums and sudden cries from protectionists about 'the Chinese taking our jobs'.

 

[Goober]

Yeah, you're right. It's perhaps just that I've become more aware of it recently with the recent debates over free trde in the forums and sudden cries from protectionists about 'the Chinese taking our jobs'.

Why is it such a suprise - it has always been there and always will.

 

[petros]

People? Racsist? Nah.

 

[Goober]

People? Racsist? Nah.

Right.

 

[petros]

Left

 

[CDNBear]

Left

Up...

 

[petros]

...the Yin Yang

 

[cranky]

OP, the left wing church of hate is alive and strong.

 

[lone wolf]

They all are. The most vocal are in denial....

 

[Praxius]

We often hear of how there is much racism on the right. There there may be truth to it (and bearing in mind that even then not all on the right are racist), we seem to be seeing a creeping of it into the left too.

And again, just as I'm not saying all on the right are racist, I'm not saying all on the left are racist either. But merely that the left is no more immune to racism as the right.

For instance, recently in some economic threads, especially when discussing free trade, I've come across certain comments such as 'the Chinese taking all our jobs' or all 'our jobs moving to China', etc., and this being presented as arguments for protectionism, a classic case of 'us' vs. 'them'.

While I'm not saying all on the left are racist, it's clear that the left is no more immune to this us vs. them mentality as the right. It just manifests itself differently.

I'm sorry, but could you explain a little better for my simple mind how your above example relates to Racism?

Being worried about all of the jobs in Canada moving to China is equal to worrying about all our jobs going to the US, or India, or Mexico.

Not everybody in one country is one particular race....... and when it comes to work & trade between countries, that's all it is..... Work & Trade.

Where you think Race comes into play, I have no idea, unless you're just trying to create an argument where none exists, using examples that don't relate.

It's no different then someone arguing about people in the US taking jobs from Canada..... not everybody in the US or in Canada are White, or Black, or Asian, or Indian......

Calling people who live in Canada "Canadians", calling people from the US "Americans", calling people in China "Chinese" or people in India "Indians" is not racist.

 

[Cliffy]

There are elements of racism in the whole left/right bashing that goes on here. Nobody is left or right on all matters but the typical left/right hate being spewed by some is so akin to the ignorance spewed by racists that it is difficult to tell them apart.

 

[Machjo]

I'm sorry, but could you explain a little better for my simple mind how your above example relates to Racism?

Being worried about all of the jobs in Canada moving to China is equal to worrying about all our jobs going to the US, or India, or Mexico.

Not everybody in one country is one particular race....... and when it comes to work & trade between countries, that's all it is..... Work & Trade.

Where you think Race comes into play, I have no idea, unless you're just trying to create an argument where none exists, using examples that don't relate.

It's no different then someone arguing about people in the US taking jobs from Canada..... not everybody in the US or in Canada are White, or Black, or Asian, or Indian......

Calling people who live in Canada "Canadians", calling people from the US "Americans", calling people in China "Chinese" or people in India "Indians" is not racist.

Well, when I read things like 'the Chinese will take our jobs', it can be construed that way. But OK, let's say it has less to do with racism and more to do with national prejudices instead.

Certainly you'd think we'd be lookng out for one another, a scratch my back and I'll scratch yours approach to international trade whereby we trade with one another so as to benefit each other mutually and trying to create jobs for all rather than a nationalistic fortress mentality of trying to take jobs away from other countries. To me, prejudice and discrimination on the basis of where you live, or on your citizenship is no better than discrimination on the basis of race. So I may be wrong on the subject of racism, but if it's not racism, then it's nationalism. Is discrimination on the basis of nationality any better?

 

[lone wolf]

That depends.... Are we gaining points or losing them?

 

[Machjo]

Then let me ask a question:

Should we be focussing on protectionism as a means of trying to take jobs from abroad, or should we rather be focussing on free trade and other strategies to create jobs for all worldwide irrespective of where one resides or of ones nationality? Is it really that hard to establish collaborative agreements between countries? From that standpoint, I get the impression free traders are interested in creating jobs for all, whereas protectionists just want to try to steal jobs from abroad.

 

[lone wolf]

Couldn't protectionists just be hoping to protect that which is here? It's not always all or nothing....

 

[Machjo]

Couldn't protectionists just be hoping to protect that which is here? It's not always all or nothing....

How do you just protect what is here when you raise tarifs to prevent others to sell to you from abroad?

Also, think of it in terms of reciprocity. Imagine if all countries raised tarifs. Sure it would create plenty of jobs for truckers or small scale inefficient companies owing to low economies of scale. But then the question is are we trying to create jobs for the sake of creating jobs, or jobs as a means to produce more wealth for the population?

There could be plenty of ways of creating jobs for all, not just our own narrow ethnos. For instance, accompany free trade with free labour movement, introduce right-to-work laws, eliminate minimum wages and inctroduce codetermination.

You could also establish common international educational standards for trades and professions, along with more income tax for education.

If more countries worked that way, we could produce productive jobs for all, not just for our own country. Again, a scratch my back and I scratch yours approach, rather the the protectionist stab-in-the-back approach.

 

[lone wolf]

So, you want a lot of people working their butts off for nothing while investors get rich? There's another purpose for protection....

 

[Machjo]

So, you want a lot of people working their butts off for nothing while investors get rich? There's another purpose for protection....

If the goal is to redistribute weealth, then raise income taxes and maybe even introduce a guaranteed income supplement. I'm not in favour of that myself (I think simple co-determination laws and quality universal compulsory education should suffice, though much better education than we currently get for free in a trade or a profession). I'm just saying though that if that's the goal, there is a much more efficient way of doing it than via 'protectionist' policies. In fact, the main reason protectionism is detrimental is equally psychological as it is economic. Anyone who knows human nature knows the notion of retaliation.