The Independent Woman

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
The Independent Woman

Women’s rights have come a long way since they won the right to vote and be counted part of the human race and when change didn’t come fast enough they decided to escalate their movement in the 1960s by burning their bras as a sign of defiance.

The corporate glass ceiling has been shattered and society has changed dramatically.

50 years later in today’s world.

Family values have gone the way of the dodo bird.

Lot more single mothers by choice, careers first, children later.

“Most Canadians unmarried, more couples childless: report”

Marriage is passé and common law is the new norm.

“Depression predicted subsequent increases in drinking among women but not among men”

The increased pressure of the corporate world have taken their toll on the independent woman that feel that they have to perform better than the men.

It is all about cause and effect and looking back does the women feel that today is a better life for them.

Lets see what women can accomplish in the next 50 years will it be a utopia and a life of bliss or will the cesspool of life suffering will continue to get worse as we explore the true definition of our roles in tomorrows society.
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Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Human nature changes very slowly and we are still in a period of adjustment with regards to Women's Lib. Where it goes, nobody knows. But it could not stay the way it was.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
As a wife and mother who stayed home all thru children raising and beyond, I don't feel that I was or
am a lesser person for it, and women didn't have to go to work to get more respect or power, all that
needed to happen was the 'government' grant them equal rights, and also a minimum wage for staying
home.
Society looked down on the 'housewife' as the expression went, as though she was something lesser than
her partner, and the partner also drank the cool aid and believed that as well.

In reality we were always equal, it is most important to raise children well, give them your time and
attention, and if women could have earned a wage for 'not' going to work, they wouldn't have had to,
except the ones who were bored or just didn't like being at home period, as some did, not all women
make good wives and mothers, some are just restless and need to 'go out' to be happy.
I suggest once long ago that it would be fair if I and others like me received a monthy wage for
staying at home, and I was laughed at by most around me, (not all), in those days that concept could
not be understood.
The cost of living went up so much, it forced many women to work to make ends meet, what happened to
the ability to live on one paycheque, it became impossible.

Somewhere along the way many men in the household decided they must control everyone within that house,
and that was a shame, and our society should not have accepted that concept.

'someone' has to look after the children, and it is nice if it doesn't have to be strangers, or day
cares etc., those institutions cost millions, and some of that money could have been paid directly to the
parent who did 'not' go to work.

The idea that 'not' working meant a down trodden poor wife/mother is silly, and women should not ever
buy into that, and think they are not worthy, it isn't reality.

If a woman feels and knows she is equal to her partner, the partner will respect that, and if he doesn't
he won't be around long.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Equal yet in different ways....Same Stuff,Different Genetics ..:)

Galaxy Of Genetic Differences Between Men & Women ;)

doesn't matter what the differences are, one person is not higher in status than the other, even if a
doctor was married to a janitor, those two people are just as important in the world, as each other,
and the same should apply from them to each other.
the behavior of people toward one another is the key.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
I think some people are confusing gender equality, with a change in
human behaviour. Society itself has evolved more from the sixties
revolution than from the women's movement. Many people think the
women's movement started it all, and in fact I believe the peace
movement did and the women's equality movement came about as
part of the above. Post war moral conservatism was the last vestige
of the old ways in America, and the spill over was a youth movement
that decided the wars and the the corporate power structure was no
longer going to rule the lives of youth, That is until the youth discovered
they needed money, so they took control of the next generation of wealth.
The Liberal cycle died and the conservative way became the norm.
That is now about to die as well and the next generation will see a return
to outward thought toward the world. Independent women are the norm
and that is a good thing. I for example, like it that my wife is independent
she can handle herself in the world if I got hit by a bus.
We need the real liberation of people, men, women, children, they are
just labels, Everyone has a vision of women, or children or men, but the
real vision of what is human gets lost in the gender debate and that is what
holds back the society in the long run.
We hear the label, not suitable for children, or for mixed company or,, well
you get the picture, When have you heard it stated might not be suitable
for men? Independent women, are at last at the table of human society
and human rights, that is where equality begins.
 

Bcool

Dilettante
Aug 5, 2010
383
2
18
Vancouver Island B.C.
As a wife and mother who stayed home all thru children raising and beyond, I don't feel that I was or
am a lesser person for it, and women didn't have to go to work to get more respect or power, all that
needed to happen was the 'government' grant them equal rights, and also a minimum wage for staying
home.
Society looked down on the 'housewife' as the expression went, as though she was something lesser than
her partner, and the partner also drank the cool aid and believed that as well.

In reality we were always equal, it is most important to raise children well, give them your time and
attention, and if women could have earned a wage for 'not' going to work, they wouldn't have had to,
except the ones who were bored or just didn't like being at home period, as some did, not all women
make good wives and mothers, some are just restless and need to 'go out' to be happy.
I suggest once long ago that it would be fair if I and others like me received a monthy wage for
staying at home, and I was laughed at by most around me, (not all), in those days that concept could
not be understood.
The cost of living went up so much, it forced many women to work to make ends meet, what happened to
the ability to live on one paycheque, it became impossible.

Somewhere along the way many men in the household decided they must control everyone within that house,
and that was a shame, and our society should not have accepted that concept.

'someone' has to look after the children, and it is nice if it doesn't have to be strangers, or day
cares etc., those institutions cost millions, and some of that money could have been paid directly to the
parent who did 'not' go to work.

The idea that 'not' working meant a down trodden poor wife/mother is silly, and women should not ever
buy into that, and think they are not worthy, it isn't reality.

If a woman feels and knows she is equal to her partner, the partner will respect that, and if he doesn't
he won't be around long.

I'd worked, both single & married, for thirteen years or so (aged 14, chucked out of school & into work), before our children came along. A job that bored me to tears but I was D. good at - medical secretary - when single & very young, allowed me to take off on my own, find a job anywhere, see new places, etc. My rule was absolutely no way would I have kids and not be at home for them - irregardless of the norms of society at the time (sixties & seventies). From personal experience I knew what that does to a child - daycares maybe perfect, but IMHO a good, loving Mum is irreplacable.

Husband decided to switch careers when they were still toddlers, which meant I had to work too. :roll: Turns out I was D. good at his new choice, better than he was in a lot of areas. :D BUT hated it 'cos I wanted to be Mum, nothing else. They needed me to be there. I did my very best to be both & paying for that health wise for the past twenty to thirty years. Looking back, I was a B. miracle worker & that's not IMHO. :p

If the kids hadn't come along, I'd have gone back to school & become a perennial university student, pottering from subject to subject until the exact thing caught my attention & maybe started me on a career in whatever it was.

I think for maternal women (for those who are, if it hasn't already, the switch gets triggered when the babes are known to be present) the way we decide life issues are centred around our children, not in a lesser way than paternal fathers, just differently and more focused.

I think, Liberalman, it shows in the statistics you encountered. More single mothers because maternal women cannot bear to be separated from their children. Somehow its male rights that have skewed things. Still many, good paternal men but many not as faithful, openly philandering because its sort of acceptable &, oddly in these days of majorly accepted contraception, refusing to use contraception & fathering children on other women in their affairs. It may well be possible that the numbers of unfaithful husbands is little to no different to when Tallola & I were young mums, but of course it was all held very hush-hush then & if a wife did the unthinkable & went for a divorce she invariably got blamed & no childcare or alimony let alone the huge risk of losing custody as she was "just a mum" without the earning potential a judge considered essential over good parenting.

What Talloola says goes for me, except I didn't get to do what I firmly believed was right for me and our children unfortunately. They survived it very well BTW. :smile:
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
Personally I much prefer independent women to any other kind. I'd hate to think my wife stays with me only because she needs to, I want her to stay because she wants to. And apparently she does, we're coming up on 30 years together the end of this month and I still think she's hot. :) So obviously I want to stay with her too. Realistically though, the "ideal" of the nuclear family where dad's the breadwinner and mom stays home and bakes cookies all the time, the "Leave it to Beaver" model of family life, is really relatively recent in human history, and appears to have died a fairly painless death. Which it deserved, it's not natural, it's largely a consequence of the industrial revolution and various defunct economic theories. For most of human history we lived in large extended kinship groups and that's what our instincts still crave, the tribe. The nuclear family is a consumption unit, that's all, has nothing to do with what makes people contented. Imagine a young mother alone at home with a couple or three pre-schoolers. It's hard, her mother's not there, no sisters or aunts around to carry some of the burden, as there would be in a tribal situation. It's no surprise to me that the women's movement objected to that, it recognized that it's unnatural but came up with a solution that just increased the confusion: devalued men, over-valued women, and denied basic biology. Women can get pregnant, bear babies, and nurse them, men can't, and that seems a pretty fundamental difference to me that must have larger implications.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
I have seen several attempts at trying to return to a more tribal situation, people trying to find a balance, particularly amoung single moms. But for generations we have had the nuclear family model and that has proven dysfunctional. It also produces dysfunctional people making a return to a more tribal situation a little more difficult than it sounds. Just about every single mom I know wants to belong to a tribe that includes males and females of every age group but getting them to agree on which individuals would participate is almost impossible.

I have participated in a few attempts at extended and alternative community formation but we all soon discovered that we were all too immature to make it work. That is why just about every commune failed - it is like being married to a dozen people or more. One is hard enough. Tribes worked because everybody was brought up in one but trying to switch horses mid stream is incredibly difficult.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
These women are certainly independent ... they're just like men.

100 drunken B.C. women brawl over male stripper

NANAIMO, B.C. — A drunken brawl broke out among a group of women at a Vancouver Island bar over the weekend after one woman blocked another woman's view of a male stripper.
More than 100 woman were at a fundraiser in Nanaimo’s Cavallotti Lodge on Friday night watching a man dressed as a police officer peel off his uniform when a women who was standing on a chair refused to get down after another onlooker argued she didn't have a clear view.
"I guess one woman assaulted another woman who was blocking her view and then all hell broke loose," said Nanaimo RCMP Const. Gary O'Brien.
Four squad cars responded.
Police arrested five women after the "alcohol-fuelled incident," but charges are not being recommended, said O'Brien.
Police plan on talking to the venue's owner about the danger of serving patrons too much alcohol.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/d...ale+stripper/3626600/story.html#ixzz11aGGnByK
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
Oh no way are women just like men when it comes to going to strippers... they're ten times more vile than men. lol.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
They're certainly independent. There is nothing in any of their personalities that connects them with the women of 100 years ago, and women that get drunk and brawl - with no thought of any consequence - are very independent.

Men get drunk and brawl. Women get drunk and brawl. It might seem more vile when women do it, but it's essentially the same behavior.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
These women are certainly independent ... they're just like men.

100 drunken B.C. women brawl over male stripper

NANAIMO, B.C. — A drunken brawl broke out among a group of women at a Vancouver Island bar over the weekend after one woman blocked another woman's view of a male stripper.
More than 100 woman were at a fundraiser in Nanaimo’s Cavallotti Lodge on Friday night watching a man dressed as a police officer peel off his uniform when a women who was standing on a chair refused to get down after another onlooker argued she didn't have a clear view.
"I guess one woman assaulted another woman who was blocking her view and then all hell broke loose," said Nanaimo RCMP Const. Gary O'Brien.
Four squad cars responded.
Police arrested five women after the "alcohol-fuelled incident," but charges are not being recommended, said O'Brien.
Police plan on talking to the venue's owner about the danger of serving patrons too much alcohol.

I think they just figured it was a way to get some more policemen there, hoping they'd strip, too.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
Ah yes. They've mastered the art of manipulating the situation to meet their wishes, regardless of the consequences.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
has anyone here ever gone and seen the way women act at male strippers? It's un-freaking-believable. No man would get away with acting like that and not be arrested or at the very least, tossed out of the bar onto his face. The screaming, pushing, MAULING the male stripper... it's insane. I went once, dragged along for 'ladies' night', and I ended up,leaving to go play pool on the 'guys' side because I was, frankly, embarassed to be a woman right then.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
has anyone here ever gone and seen the way women act at male strippers? It's un-freaking-believable. No man would get away with acting like that and not be arrested or at the very least, tossed out of the bar onto his face. The screaming, pushing, MAULING the male stripper... it's insane. I went once, dragged along for 'ladies' night', and I ended up,leaving to go play pool on the 'guys' side because I was, frankly, embarassed to be a woman right then.

Yeah, the FAIR SEX can be a bunch of bitches at times. :lol:

Ah yes. They've mastered the art of manipulating the situation to meet their wishes, regardless of the consequences.

I remember the days quite well, when this "woman's lib" first became fashionable, during the height of my pub crawling era (when pubs weren't civilized as they are now) and you get the odd woman in there drunk and worse mannered than most of the loggers- swearing and mouthing off in guys faces and insulting until finally after someone had taken more than enough and lost it and drifted her one- her retort would be "hit a lady would ya"? :lol:
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
Any independent woman had better not have the audacity of being pro-life, conservative, smart and good-looking, unless she wants to earn and suffer from the undying hatred and scorn of those whose greatest ambition in life is to be politically correct, know everything better and claim to be more compassionate.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,336
113
Vancouver Island
If I was to tell my current wife that she couldn't be independent I would have to lock one of us in a very secure room to protect my health.