FARMING & FOOD – Is it all fouled up?

[countryboy]

Farming in Canada has undergone a whack of changes over the past few decades. Small family-run farms have been disappearing for a long time, replaced by larger operations all the way up to so-called factory farms. Higher efficiency - increasing the ability to produce a lot of food at the lowest cost possible - seems to have been the driving force behind most of these changes.


At the same time, the food we eat has undergone a lot of changes. Many claim that the quality of our food has gone downhill at an alarming rate.


Years ago, most people chose their foods with a high priority on nutrition, but it appears that – for a number of reasons - convenience has become much more important to the average consumer. And generally, cheap food is a consumer demand that remains fairly constant.


Are we now beginning to pay a high price for these changes?
More pollution?
Less nutrition in our food?
More health problems?
Loss of a rural lifestyle?
Possible damage to our sustainability of food production?


It's a subject that that mainstream media tends to ignore much of the time, but it's one that affects every person in the country. Because, we all gotta' eat!

Any thoughts?

 

[Cliffy]

Yup! We have become unsustainable. Our production and eating habits are going to be the end of us - not that I would be sorry to see us go.

 

[Nuggler]

Well, there was that debacle about prions and mad cow disease, after which "they" decided it was a bad idea to feed cows to cows. But they still feed cows to pigs and chickens, and don't clean the batcher when they grind up grains and whatnot for cows. So.................they're still feeding cows to cows.
So, yep, I'd say it's sorta gone for a shyte.

In the US, cows are raised with a goodly helping of antibiotics and growth hormones, so if you eat a lot of US beef, and start growing tits, well, I guess that might be a minus also. Don't know if we givem hormones in Kanada. I know we have a buncha hores, but they're in charge, so we're in good hands.

Monsanto is doing their patriotic best to fukk a farmer every day, and sue him if some of their grains happen to blow onto his fields. That's just one. Farmers in India are committing suicide in large numbers thanks to that wonderful company. Check out the doc: "The world according to Monsanto" on freedocumentaries.org.

Well, that's it for now. Hope I've set your mind at ease. If you need anymore info, I suggest you ask the noble wisestman on here. He's really smart, doesn't mind letting you know, and anyone can point him out. It's not necessary to climb high mountains to find his retreat.

Bless you. Have a great Christmas. Don't eat the holly. It's poisonous.

;-)

 

[Liberalman]

If farmers were smart enough then they would cut the middleman out and form co-ops or just make the finished products on site and sell to the retailers or consumers then they would get top dollar.

But the family farm would rather sell to the middleman at bottom dollar so they deserve what they get.

Factory farms are springing up and quality suffers now if the farmers decided to compete with them then the quality of food would rise especially if they trademark their products.

 

[countryboy]

If farmers were smart enough then they would cut the middleman out and form co-ops or just make the finished products on site and sell to the retailers or consumers then they would get top dollar.

But the family farm would rather sell to the middleman at bottom dollar so they deserve what they get.

Factory farms are springing up and quality suffers now if the farmers decided to compete with them then the quality of food would rise especially if they trademark their products.

Liberalman, your first point on co-ops is an interesting one and that is being done in various parts of the country now. Making the finished products on site does actually occur here and there, but it's not an easy thing to do.

Because much of our food is grown a fair distance from the consumer (i.e., it's hard to plant a field of wheat anywhere near Toronto), I'm not sure that all family farms have much of a choice when it comes to how they sell their production. Of course, some of that depends on what kind of food we're talking about...it's a big "field." :lol:

Some farmers are in fact competing with factory farms but the general consumer demand for cheap food is a big factor...

 

[countryboy]

Well, there was that debacle about prions and mad cow disease, after which "they" decided it was a bad idea to feed cows to cows. But they still feed cows to pigs and chickens, and don't clean the batcher when they grind up grains and whatnot for cows. So.................they're still feeding cows to cows.
So, yep, I'd say it's sorta gone for a shyte.

In the US, cows are raised with a goodly helping of antibiotics and growth hormones, so if you eat a lot of US beef, and start growing tits, well, I guess that might be a minus also. Don't know if we givem hormones in Kanada. I know we have a buncha hores, but they're in charge, so we're in good hands.

Monsanto is doing their patriotic best to fukk a farmer every day, and sue him if some of their grains happen to blow onto his fields. That's just one. Farmers in India are committing suicide in large numbers thanks to that wonderful company. Check out the doc: "The world according to Monsanto" on freedocumentaries.org.

Well, that's it for now. Hope I've set your mind at ease. If you need anymore info, I suggest you ask the noble wisestman on here. He's really smart, doesn't mind letting you know, and anyone can point him out. It's not necessary to climb high mountains to find his retreat.

Bless you. Have a great Christmas. Don't eat the holly. It's poisonous.

;-)

Yeah, I have a beef :fucyc: about the mad cow problem too. Feedlot beef (the kind you eat from the supermarket or a fast food place) is always risky. If cows were all grass-fed like they're supposed to be, that problem would go away.

Agree totally on the Monsanto thing. I have a brother-in-law who got out of farming primarily because of them. Jeez, you'd think our Charter of Rights would apply to small farmers in some way.

 

[Liberalman]

Liberalman, your first point on co-ops is an interesting one and that is being done in various parts of the country now. Making the finished products on site does actually occur here and there, but it's not an easy thing to do.

Because much of our food is grown a fair distance from the consumer (i.e., it's hard to plant a field of wheat anywhere near Toronto), I'm not sure that all family farms have much of a choice when it comes to how they sell their production. Of course, some of that depends on what kind of food we're talking about...it's a big "field." :lol:

Some farmers are in fact competing with factory farms but the general consumer demand for cheap food is a big factor...

Ok then the farmers should have milling facilities that they own and where the wheat is grown and ship the finished product to market.

The biggest complaint the farmer has is the middleman is giving them bottom dollar and the food that consumers buy is at a premium.

Growing wheat in Toronto is possible through green houses and a new concept called vertical farming. http://www.verticalfarm.com

The farmers do have options but they just want to do it the way their fathers did it before them with no change.

Companies are investing in new technologies and if the family farm wants to servive they have to de the same.

 

[Liberalman]

Yeah, I have a beef :fucyc: about the mad cow problem too. Feedlot beef (the kind you eat from the supermarket or a fast food place) is always risky. If cows were all grass-fed like they're supposed to be, that problem would go away.

Agree totally on the Monsanto thing. I have a brother-in-law who got out of farming primarily because of them. Jeez, you'd think our Charter of Rights would apply to small farmers in some way.

What happenned to your brother in law to get out of farming?

 

[Nuggler]

Yeah, I have a beef :fucyc: about the mad cow problem too. Feedlot beef (the kind you eat from the supermarket or a fast food place) is always risky. If cows were all grass-fed like they're supposed to be, that problem would go away.

Agree totally on the Monsanto thing. I have a brother-in-law who got out of farming primarily because of them. Jeez, you'd think our Charter of Rights would apply to small farmers in some way.

Charter doesn't seem to apply. An uncle of mine was a hard working dairy farmer all his life and grew his herd form zilch to excellent Holsteins. He almost threw up his hands and packed it in a few times when he had to deal with the bureaucracy in Ag Canada. But persevered and died young. His son just sold quota for over a million. So, I guess that's a success story.

But, it's also one more small (relatively speaking) dairy farmer out of the equation, as he sold to a corporation. And who could blame him. Nothing but work and paperwork. He figured life was too short after watching his dad.

When the big corps have total control, and they're going to 'someday', watch the prices of food go up. Like the man said,"we ain't seen nothin yet".

Selling milk directly to the public is illegal, and meat has to be taken to a licenced abatoir. God help ya if you get caught killing and selling direct. All this to protect us from "unscrupulous" farmers who would sell us tainted meat..(and that has happened in spades)....Lots of documented cases.....selling deadstock, etc....so here comes the rooools...lots of rules, and guess we needem. All farmers don't have halos.

Thank god for Maple Leaf Foods, eh................right. At least they manned up and tried to correct their situation. I'm told.

Liberalman; it would take millions of dollars to set up a meat co-op, for say cows, pigs, chickens. Damn risky. Good idea and it's probably being done somewhere. I know farmers markets do a land office trade in fresh produce.

But, anything from jam to maple syrup, has to be labelled in French and English, and the contents shown on the label. 8O........Er......ah, contains maple syrup.
right.

Just my opinion, and I might be totally wrong, but I think the powers what am set up roadblocks to help big-ag, at the expense of all us little guys. Ya think??

Ah wunnerful. The freedom to ramble on.

 

[Mowich]

I am certainly no expert on marketing, however, it seems to me that one farmer trying to get his products to the grocery store has little hope against the advertising power of conglomerates. Money talks and when it comes to putting food on our tables it is the food giants who have all the power and market share.

Countryboy is right, there are indepedent farmers, ranchers, and organic growers struggling to get a share of the market but they face big hurdles not the least of which is simply educating a populace that has come to see processed food and fast food as the only choice in their busy lives.

The power for change lies in the hands of people, if they want to see good food, not processed garbage back on their tables, they will have to stand up and fight for it, and it isn't going to be any easy battle.

 

[countryboy]

Ok then the farmers should have milling facilities that they own and where the wheat is grown and ship the finished product to market.

The biggest complaint the farmer has is the middleman is giving them bottom dollar and the food that consumers buy is at a premium.

Growing wheat in Toronto is possible through green houses and a new concept called vertical farming. http://www.verticalfarm.com

The farmers do have options but they just want to do it the way their fathers did it before them with no change.

Companies are investing in new technologies and if the family farm wants to servive they have to de the same.

The "middleman" (or shall we say "middleMEN") do have a role to play in getting food from the field to the plate. I think the theory is that each step along the way (such as turning wheat into flour), if performed by a specialist, can be done the better, faster, and cheaper...in theory. And economies of scale enter into it too, whereby it can be more efficient to mill grain all day long, every day, to reduce the cost of doing it. It's a bit like batch work vs. production lines...an example of that would be building one complete car at a time vs. building a great number of them at the same time in separate steps...the production line. Unfortunately, going to an extreme in applying production principles to food results in certain key items getting left behind...like nutrition and overall goodness.

Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with the price of many things in the supermarket. One good example would be paying 5 or 6 bucks for a box of cheap grain and a bunch of additives (breakfast cereal)...But, I will say I think we do eat more cheaply than many other places in the world. Or at least, I think it's possible to do so here. Depends on one's choices.

Your point on the vertical farm is a great one...fingers crossed that some entrepreneurial type will jump on that one to get the ball rolling! I don't know if it would work on wheat farming (due to volume required) but it's worth considering.

 

[countryboy]

Charter doesn't seem to apply. An uncle of mine was a hard working dairy farmer all his life and grew his herd form zilch to excellent Holsteins. He almost threw up his hands and packed it in a few times when he had to deal with the bureaucracy in Ag Canada. But persevered and died young. His son just sold quota for over a million. So, I guess that's a success story.

But, it's also one more small (relatively speaking) dairy farmer out of the equation, as he sold to a corporation. And who could blame him. Nothing but work and paperwork. He figured life was too short after watching his dad.

When the big corps have total control, and they're going to 'someday', watch the prices of food go up. Like the man said,"we ain't seen nothin yet".

Selling milk directly to the public is illegal, and meat has to be taken to a licenced abatoir. God help ya if you get caught killing and selling direct. All this to protect us from "unscrupulous" farmers who would sell us tainted meat..(and that has happened in spades)....Lots of documented cases.....selling deadstock, etc....so here comes the rooools...lots of rules, and guess we needem. All farmers don't have halos.

Thank god for Maple Leaf Foods, eh................right. At least they manned up and tried to correct their situation. I'm told.

Liberalman; it would take millions of dollars to set up a meat co-op, for say cows, pigs, chickens. Damn risky. Good idea and it's probably being done somewhere. I know farmers markets do a land office trade in fresh produce.

But, anything from jam to maple syrup, has to be labelled in French and English, and the contents shown on the label. 8O........Er......ah, contains maple syrup.
right.

Just my opinion, and I might be totally wrong, but I think the powers what am set up roadblocks to help big-ag, at the expense of all us little guys. Ya think??

Ah wunnerful. The freedom to ramble on.

Good "rambling!" That's a hell of a tragic story about your uncle...a guy trying to feed people, make a buck doing it, and then dying young because of it. The question of the day should not be, "Is there something rotten in Denmark?" but rather, "Is there something rotten in Canada?" and the answer is most definitely "YES!" Our food situation.

The small farmer is indeed between a rock and hard place and the roooooooooools are not in his/her favour. Quite the opposite. And that, for all of us, is a bloody shame.

 

[countryboy]

I am certainly no expert on marketing, however, it seems to me that one farmer trying to get his products to the grocery store has little hope against the advertising power of conglomerates. Money talks and when it comes to putting food on our tables it is the food giants who have all the power and market share.

Countryboy is right, there are indepedent farmers, ranchers, and organic growers struggling to get a share of the market but they face big hurdles not the least of which is simply educating a populace that has come to see processed food and fast food as the only choice in their busy lives.

The power for change lies in the hands of people, if they want to see good food, not processed garbage back on their tables, they will have to stand up and fight for it, and it isn't going to be any easy battle.

You don't have to be an expert in marketing to understand this crap. Marketing has lots of definitions and there are lots of experts out there who can define it to death. Here's my simplest version: Marketing - satisfying customer requirements, at a profit.

Your last paragraph pretty much sums it all up...(IF they want to see good food...) - many people want cheap and convenient food, so the big companies are providing just that. Well, convenient anyway...not sure if everyone sees it as cheap.

It might have to start right back at the beginning...with education. A big, big challenge.

 

[Mowich]

Maybe what we in Canada need is our own 'Michael Pollan'. Someone who will confront the media on the issues of food and food production in our country.

 

[AnnaG]

A couple big words: "convenience" and "profit". People demand convenience and companies make profit making things convenient. Most people go to the grocery store for their food. A few people grow it. Only the few people, and I mean people as opposed to companies, respect what goes into growing food. That is a big deal. How can you respect agriculture and food if you spend a couple $ on a carton of eggs from the store, cook it, and eat it while you read the newspaper or watch the idiot box? If you had to grow the chicken that makes the eggs, feed her water her, etc. then you'd appreciate the egg more, IMO. People just get the stuff they like, eat it, and if they make a comment about the food at all it's about the taste. The cooks are more important than the people that actually grow the food. If there weren't people growing food, companies would be manufacturing it. Well, some manufactured stuff is ok, but some isn't ok, and one of those manufactured things that isn't ok is food. Almost everyone can cook. Big deal. Not everyone will take the time to grow food. Twisted priorities.

A little article:

http://www.alive.com/4768a12a2.php

 

[countryboy]

Maybe what we in Canada need is our own 'Michael Pollan'. Someone who will confront the media on the issues of food and food production in our country.

Isn't he the guy who wrote the book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma?" What a great read!

 

[countryboy]

A couple big words: "convenience" and "profit". People demand convenience and companies make profit making things convenient. Most people go to the grocery store for their food. A few people grow it. Only the few people, and I mean people as opposed to companies, respect what goes into growing food. That is a big deal. How can you respect agriculture and food if you spend a couple $ on a carton of eggs from the store, cook it, and eat it while you read the newspaper or watch the idiot box? If you had to grow the chicken that makes the eggs, feed her water her, etc. then you'd appreciate the egg more, IMO. People just get the stuff they like, eat it, and if they make a comment about the food at all it's about the taste. The cooks are more important than the people that actually grow the food. If there weren't people growing food, companies would be manufacturing it. Well, some manufactured stuff is ok, but some isn't ok, and one of those manufactured things that isn't ok is food. Almost everyone can cook. Big deal. Not everyone will take the time to grow food. Twisted priorities.

A little article:

Learning to Respect Our Food :: Healthy Lifestyles and Natural Weight Loss Information | Fitness and Food Nutrition at Alive.com

I guess it's all an indication of how far we've "progessed" and become removed from reality, in some ways.

It is curious and sad how people can get all revved up over an infomercial on abused puppies (and legitimately so, I must add) and yet think nothing at all about munching down on a fast food double cheeseburger with no concern about the abuse and torture suffered by the animal that provided the beef, from the time it hit the feedlot to the moment of its frightening death and very ungraceful dismemberment. Outta' sight, outta' mind.

 

[countryboy]

What happenned to your brother in law to get out of farming?

An experience with Monsanto.

 

[Mowich]

Isn't he the guy who wrote the book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma?" What a great read!

You got it, countryboy. He also wrote, 'In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto' and 'The Botany of Desire: A Plant's Eye View of the World' - all of them are grand reads.

 

[AnnaG]

Outta' sight, outta' mind.

There's that, too, yes.

I don't think food is the big issue, though. I think the biggest issue we have is fresh palatable water.
Earth's surface is 71% water. About 97% of it is seawater. The other 3% is referred to as fresh water. Of that fresh water, about 0.9% is accessible. So basically the 6.5 billion people on this planet can only use about 1% of the water on Earth. That 1% is not all used for drinking. It is used for commercial purposes, industrial purposes, washing, etc. A lot of it is used for dumping crap into: the major rivers in India, a half dozen of China's biggest rivers, etc. By the time the Mississippi river flows into the Gulf of Mexico, it's one of the most polluted rivers in the world.
But, don't panic, we have the ability to clean water, too. We don't have to just rely on Earth to do that. But this cleaning costs an awful lot of money. Wouldn't it be better just to not dirty the water to begin with?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: we have 6.5 billion people using less than 1% of the fresh water on the planet for drinking. That 1 % turns out to be about 501,538,500 US gallons per person. The average US citizen uses about 35,000 gallons per year and same for Canadians. Europeans use about half that. Earth is having to filter out more and more crap as the population grows and people keep fouling up the water. And what's more people keep throwing crap into the air and into the ground, so that eventually end up being waterborn, too.

Sorry about the detraction from food, but we also ingest water.