RE: Canadian history and
This'll be long, get a sandwich:
Your country's terrible sacrifice during both world wars, and the British role?
Yes, Canada did pay a hefty price for our involvment during both World Wars (considering the small population we had), however I myself feel that our contributions to both conflicts were justified. During World War I, when Britain declared war on Germany, Canada was automatically at war, however our status as a Dominion meant that we were obligated only to send whatever we felt was needed for the war effort. Many in Canada just wanted us to send logistical support (i.e. blankets, food, ammo), while others wanted us to send every able bodied man to fight on the front lines. Considering at the outbreak of war, the Canadian Army was no more than 3,000 Regular and Militia soldiers, and the Canadian Navy consisted of six (6) warships ( 2x Cruisers, 1x Light Cruiser, 2 x Destroyers, 1x Minesweeper), our work was cut out for us. By the end of the War, our Army consisted of 5 Infantry Divisions (in the neighbourhood of some 225,000 men), our Navy consisted of 129 surface vessels and 4 submarines, and the Royal Canadian Air Force had at its disposal over 100 aircraft. When we entered the War, in the Spring of 1915, at Ypres, we were largely seen as a joke. Poorly trained colonial troops, unfit for anything other than guarding an outhouse. In 1915, for those that do not know, the World saw the first poison gas attack ever. At Ypres, the Germans unleashed 5,000 canisters of poison gas on the Canadian and French lines. Expecting us to run, they then charged head-long at us, where the French broke, but the Canadians stood. Despite the choking mustard gas, the PPCLI fought off every German wave thrown at them. Following Ypres, the value of the Canadian Army was reappraised, and we were given a large task in the War. We became, over time, known for our ability to stand and fight, and defeat insurmountable odds. We fought at Arras, The Somme, The Marne, Verdun, and Flers-Courcelette, and with every victory, or bloody defeat, we began to be seen as elite soldiers that could get the job done, or die trying. The International opinion of us changed on April 9th, 1917, when the 1st Canadian Corps (4 Divisions) fighting together for the first time (before this, Canadian Divisions were split up and put where they were needed), rose from their trenches on a snowy Easter morning and began advancing up the German strongpoint of Vimy Ridge. By noon the Ridge was in Canadian hands, with small pockets of resistance remaining. It should be pointed out that the Germans controlled Vimy from the start over the War and that the British had lost over 200,000 men trying to capture Vimy, and the French 150,000.It's for this reason that many have gone on to say that April 9th, 1917, not July 1st, 1867, was the day Canada truely became a Nation. Our identity of a free and independent Nation was forged on the bloody slopes of Vimy, an identity that came with a heavy price; 3,598 men killed and 10,602 wounded. Post-Vimy the respect for Canadians was extreme on both sides. During the last 100 Days of the War (including Cambrai and the Pursuit to Mons) Canadians spearheaded
EVERY offensive. At the close of World War I, Canada had suffered terribly; 66,655 dead, and 172,950 wounded. As a result of our sacrifice, we were given a seat at the fledgling League of Nations.
World War II saw a repeat of the 1st World War. Canada was woefully unprepared. We had around 8,000 men in the Army, and somewhere around a dozen warships, with almost no Air Force to speak of. By the end of the War our Army had ballooned to 4 Infantry Divisions, 2 Armored Divisions, 1 Logistical Division, 2 Independent Armoured Brigades, and an Airborne Battalion, all encompasing around 1.1 million men. Our Navy grew to over 300 warships (3rd largest in the World), and our Air Force peaked at around 780 aircraft (4th largest in the World). The thing many don't realize is that during World War II, we were never obligated to be there, times had changed since WW I. However, we declared war on Germany exactly 1 week after Britain (to show our independence), and never looked back. World War II was a bloody repeat of World War I for Canada. It all sparked off in 1940/41 with the utter defeat of "C" Force defending Hong Kong. The Japanese utterly obliterated the Winnipeg Grenadies and the Royal Rifles of Canada. These two valiant Regiments held off for weeks against the Japanese horde, but in the end were encircled and wiped out, many being forced on the Bataan Death March, in to captivity, where numerous died at the brutal hands of the Japanese. The 2nd Canadian Division landed at Dieppe in an effort to open a second front in Europe, and were utterly massacared due to
poor support from Britain and the United States. In Sicily things turned around for us. We helped clear Sicily and moved on to Italy where we fought some fierce engagements; Ortona, The Gothic Line, and the Hindenburg Line. In 1944, we landed in Normandy, comprising over 1/5 of the total Allied Strength. Canada, and Canada alone, liberated the Dutch (something they are thankful for to this day). Our Navy spent the entire course of the War policing over 1/2 of the Atlantic against German U-boats, and our Air Force was instrumental in fighting the Battle of Britain. In all, during World War II, we performed better than we did in World War I. We gained the respect of not only the British and Americans, but the Germans as well. In the end, we went through 6 long bloody years of war at a cost of; 42,042 dead and 53,145 wounded. While it is terrible to look at the numbers and see over 100,000 Canadian men and women killed in less than 50 years, I will never say that we should not have joined the War. We accomplished a lot, the War helped earn Canada much international recognition, and at the end of the day we did our duty and helped prevent two radical German Governments from conquering all of Europe.
Now, as for British involvment. This is somewhat of a sore subject for me. Let me first start off by saying that I have a deep respect for both the past and present day British military. I've worked with Brits several times and they're top notch. In the past, they performed well, better than a lot of other Nations did. At the end of the day though my beef lies not with Britians capabilites during both World Wars, but with the way they treated the colonials (Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, and Pakistani). We were seen, even until late in both wars, as poor excuses for soldiers. Canadians and Australians were notorious for being rowdy and causing much chaos both on and off the battlefield. The British have always been known for their pomp, but in War one should expect that to wither away, sadly with the British Officer class, it did not. There was a deep animosity between the Canadian leadership and their British counterparts (whom the Canadians fell under in the order of battle). One issue that stands out the most is the issue of summary executions conducted on the Western Front from 1914-1918 against Canadian soldiers. Over a four year period 346 British soldiers were tied to a pole and executed by British Command for a wide range of offenses (rape, theft, murder, refusing to fight, shell shock (which later was identified and treated, albeit after some 50 soldiers were executed for it). In addition to the several hundred British executed there were; 25 Canadians, 13 Belgians, and 5 New Zealanders. My issue with this was that while we were indeed serving
WITH British forces, our lads should not have been shot on a British whim. If you'll notice, there are no Australians listed, that's because Australia refused to let their troops be shot. Sadly Canada was forced (through politics and military manouvering) in to letting Britain have their way. It's a sad piece of Canadian military history when one looks back and sees the names of 25 men shot at dawn (8 for suffering shellshock). Furthermore, British command during World War I was abhorent. A terrific example is the Battle of the Somme, in which a "fool-proof" British plan to run the Germans out of France resulted in over
50,000 casualties in the first eight hours. The offensive went on for months, with the British literally throwing thousands of men at German machine gun positions. In the end, at a cost of 420,000 British casualties, 200,000 French, 24,029 Canadian, 19,240 Belgian and 7,080 Australian casualties, for a gain of 11 kilometers. As a result of the Somme, Canada refused to remain in British sole command, and this lead to the formation of the 1st Canadian Corps (all 4 Canadian Divisions fighting together), which went in to action at Vimy. During the 2nd World War Canada utterly refused to allow Britian direct control of our Divisions. Yes, we intergrated with the British Army, but at the end of the day, Canadians were commanded by Canadians. In fact, as a result of this, several high profile Canadian Generals came to light. A great example is Lieutenant-General Guy Simonds, who (at 41 years old) commanded the 2nd Canadian Corps in Europe. Some noteable things said about Simonds:
British Field Marshall Bernard Law Montgomery = "only general fit to hold high command in war"
U.S General Omar Bradley. = "the best of the Canadian generals"
British General Sir Miles Dempsey ="the best of my Corps Commanders"
German Field Marshall Erwin Rommel ="a more dangerous man on the Western Front there is not"
Sadly though, due to the fact that Canada was still, in a round about way, under British command, many of our achievements have gone unnoticed for generations. It makes me wonder who here, on these forums knows any of these famous Canadian battles, and what happened there, from World War I;
Ypres*
Arras*
The Somme
The Marne
Verdun
Loos
Flers-Courcelette
Vimy Ridge *
Asine
Passchendaele*
Cambrai *
Le Hamel
Mons*
Or these from World War II:
Dunquerque*
Hong Kong
Tobruk
Dieppe
Sicily
Salerno
Ortona*
The Gothic Line*
The Hindenburg Line*
The Rimini Line*
Rome*
D-Day*
The Scheldt*
THe Hochwald*
Bergen-Belsen
The ones with an asterix denote pivotal Battles during each war. Battles, that if not won, would have set the Allies back largely. I bet no one here even knows that Canadian troops were the first ones to enter Rome, for in movies, and even some history books, it is always credited to the Americans. Does anyone know that if Canada had not liberated Antwerp (The Schedlt) the War would have faltered? No, because Canada is constantly overshadowed by Britian and America.
Ok my fingers are aching from typing and I really need to work. However I will weigh in with additional info on your other questions later tonight. Thanks for reading.
