The First World War is nothing to be proud of

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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As if any war is something to be 'proud' of. Anyway, here's buddys' opinion:


Modern Canada was born on the bloodied field of battle of Vimy Ridge. Your high school history teacher told you that. Our current military-happy federal government repeats it often enough. The Governor-General recited the accepted wisdom to a crowd of thousands just this past Monday at the Vimy memorial, where he described the battle as a “very defining” moment in Canadian history.

The tropes are well known to Vimy devotes. Over four days in April in 1917, Canadian soldiers accomplished through planning, guts and guile what 150,000 dead French and British soldiers had failed to achieve: The capture of seven kilometres of land rising up to a ridge held by the Germans. It was the first time all four divisions of the Canadian Corps had fought together — 3,598 Canadians lay dead; 7,000 were wounded.

But is Vimy really the best of Canada? Does our modern identity and national purpose hinge on the harrowing slaughter of our citizens on a foreign field of mud in a pointless war?

more

John Moore: The First World War is nothing to be proud of | Full Comment | National Post
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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He answers his own questions...

But is Vimy really the best of Canada? Yes, through planning, guts and guile.

Does our modern identity and national purpose hinge on the harrowing slaughter of our citizens on a foreign field of mud in a pointless war? No, it hinges on the planning, guts and guile.

No matter what your feelings are on wars or Soldiers, through planning, guts and guile, during those fateful days, those Soldiers put Canada on the big map.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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Our presence did put us on the map, but, the war was the clash of crazed empires. Britain one, Austria- Hungary another, etc.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

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Mar 19, 2006
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He answers his own questions...

But is Vimy really the best of Canada? Yes, through planning, guts and guile.

Does our modern identity and national purpose hinge on the harrowing slaughter of our citizens on a foreign field of mud in a pointless war? No, it hinges on the planning, guts and guile.

No matter what your feelings are on wars or Soldiers, through planning, guts and guile, during those fateful days, those Soldiers put Canada on the big map.

Those who talk as though war is something we are proud of do not understand anything about soldiers or soldiering. I know a young veteran who returned from war and was met with open arms and many compliments. "We are proud of you," one family member said and even politicians said, "you did your Country proud." This young soldier did not feel pride in killing another, did not regale the loss of comrades as the testing of his mettle or resolve. In fact he struggled with the things he did, felt responsible for those he lost and was indifferent to those who called him hero or patriot.

They did not understand. It was not about Flag or Country.

It was about his brothers.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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The bravery of soldiers is always different from the motives of the politician. And, in WW1 we were there automatically as colonial fodder.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Does our modern identity and national purpose hinge on the harrowing slaughter of our citizens on a foreign field of mud in a pointless war?
Depends on if that is a greater crime than any we committed against people prior to that and who knows, all of our past crimes could be nothing compared to what crimes we may do in the future.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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War is never good, but there's alternatives that might not suit everyone either. I have never been in a war or in the military, so beyond that wouldn't be able to expound. :smile:
 

relic

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Nov 29, 2009
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Was Dieppe planned by Canadians ?If I read my history correctly,Curry told that idiot Haig that if he wanted to use Canadians for cannon fodder any longer,then a Canadian would be driving.
 

Bar Sinister

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Jan 17, 2010
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Was Dieppe planned by Canadians ?If I read my history correctly,Curry told that idiot Haig that if he wanted to use Canadians for cannon fodder any longer,then a Canadian would be driving.

Dieppe was a British Operation for the most part, and a badly bungled one. You can blame the British Commander Lord Louis Mountbatten. However, Dieppe was World War II, not World War I.

Canadians took pride in Vimy because it was the only notable battlefield achievement by the Allies in 1917 and was the first operation that was essentially Canadian. Canadians do not take pride in World War I; they take pride in the fact that Canada achieved what the vaunted British and French armies could not achieve. After the battle Canadians soldiers were considered elite troops and used as such for the remainder of the war. The battle marks a change in the Canadian psyche in that many Canadians prior to Vimy (with the exception of those in Quebec) considered themselves British. The actions at Vimy and other battles in World War I are credited with firming the Canadian identity.
 

damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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Retired Cdn Soldier, you did indeed put things into perspective here it was for his
brothers in a tight situation.
In addition the byproduct was that Canada became self identifying as a notion in
the eyes of the rest of the world more so than nationally.
Vimy was the first war of its kind and the last of colonial empires of another era.

The second world war, saw Canadians advanced further than anyone else on D Day.
in fact Canucks had move 12 miles inland on day one. The other part about this
that few take into consideration is the Canadian lifestyle of the time. it was rural
and the boys were of a different mind set than we have today.
Yes I would say we did indeed become identified by the world on that day from
that victory
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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... but I have the deepest respect for men who died there, those that were captured and those who returned.
Well that should go without saying.

I am not proud of Dieppe...
Why not? It's been heralded as a chance to test techniques and equipment for a water landing assault.

It's my opinion, D Day would not have been the costly success it was, without what was learned at Dieppe. I'm deeply proud of that.

When is Hairy Bikers on?
I have no idea. But I sure do get your point.
 
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The Old Medic

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May 16, 2010
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The First World War was nothing that any country should be proud of. It began because of religion, primarily (the Russians intervened when Austri-Hungry punished the Orthodox Serbs for murdering their Crown Prince). Germany then declared war on Russia, in support of its ally, Austria Hungry. Great Britain and France really had no business becoming involved at all, but they decided to support Russia (and their Czar was a relative of the British Royalty).

Canada became involved because it was not yet a fully independent country. It was an integral part of Great Britain back then (there was no Canadian citizenship, we were all British Subjects, and the British Parliament could override ANY AND ALL Canadian legislation). In fact, until January 1, 1947, Canada was not completely independent (no country can possibly be independent, when it does not have its own citizenship).

It was the British military leadership, more than any other single factor, that was responsible for the horrible casualties on the Western Front (and Frances leadership was next in line). The Canadians were essentially used to fill in the ranks of the British Army, and were under total and complete British command.

The lies cooked up by British Propaganda experts inflamed the populace (The Germans are raping Nuns, murdering innocent children, etc., were all blatantly untrue.), making them support the war. Repeatedly, throughout 197 and 1918, the Western armies were on the verge of mutiny, because of the constant bloodbath their inept leadership kept throwing them into.