The gold dinar and the silver dirham.


White_Unifier
#1

wwwyoutubecomwatchvnNtIsSWVJBI



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_dinar (external - login to view)

Damn those Muslims are smart!

Why do we allow central banks to erode our savings by diluting our money when we could just create our own gold and silver currencies to trade?

Of course gold and even silver can be inconvenient when we want to buy a two-dollar chocolate bar, but that's where debit cards could come in handy. A bank debit card could allow the user to make purchases of 1/1000 of a gold dinar or 1/1000 of a silver dirham.

If we think that sounds too 'Islamic,' then why not the stelo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelo (external - login to view)

The bronze one-stelo coin equals the yello-copper five-stelo coin, the copper-nickel ten-stelo coin, and the silver 25-stelo coin. No gold-stelo coin was ever created to the best of my knowledge, but nothing would be stopping us from creating one. Plus, even if some people chose to turn to the stelos and others to the dinars and dirhams, the currecies would not fluctuate in value between one another since they'd be made of the same metals. essentially x gold stelos would always be worth y dinars, and x silver stelos would always be worth y silver dinars.

If we popularly chose to turn away from the fiat currency, though governments could still tax us honestly, they couldn't tax us dishonestly by just printing money.
 
Danbones
#2
then they just send in Hitlarious to steal all the gold like they did in Libya
we came we saw...he died...cackle cackle cackle
 
White_Unifier
+1
#3  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by DanbonesView Post

then they just send in Hitlarious to steal all the gold like they did in Libya
we came we saw...he died...cackle cackle cackle

I'm not against honest taxation, but do it upfront and honest, not by sneakily printing money.
 
petros
#4
You've never heard of Canadian Maples?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cana...old_Maple_Leaf (external - login to view)

Silver Maple Leaf Coin (external - login to view)

Gold Maple Leaf Coins (external - login to view)
 
Curious Cdn
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You've never heard of Canadian Maples?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cana...old_Maple_Leaf (external - login to view)

Silver Maple Leaf Coin (external - login to view)

Gold Maple Leaf Coins (external - login to view)

I saw them being made, last summer.

They are NOT to be confused with Maple Leafs, that are quite worthless.
 
Danbones
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

I'm not against honest taxation, but do it upfront and honest, not by sneakily printing money.

agreed

Quote: Originally Posted by Curious CdnView Post

I saw them being made, last summer.

They are NOT to be confused with Maple Leafs, that are quite worthless.

they are in the playoffs
NHL Hockey Standings
you ever been in the playoffs?
which playoffs were you in?
 
White_Unifier
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You've never heard of Canadian Maples?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cana...old_Maple_Leaf (external - login to view)

Silver Maple Leaf Coin (external - login to view)

Gold Maple Leaf Coins (external - login to view)

There is a difference: the gold dinar and silver dirham and the stelos were designed with intranational and international trade and investment in mind. The silver and gold mapleleafs are designed with only investment but not trade in mind as far as I know.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
petros
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

There is a difference: the gold dinar and silver dirham and the stelos were designed with intranational and international trade and investment in mind. The silver and gold mapleleafs are designed with only investment but not trade in mind as far as I know.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Maples are used in trade regularly.
 
gerryh
#9
well, I guess if you want to support ISIS.


ISIS introduces (external - login to view)
 
petros
#10
I want one.
 
White_Unifier
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Maples are used in trade regularly.

Really? I'd like to see that.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

well, I guess if you want to support ISIS.


ISIS introduces (external - login to view)

Actually, ISIS is just a copycat. A Malaysian province has allowed the use of the gold dinar and silver dirham since 2000, though its use is (or at least was) illegal in the rest of Malaysia. It has since gained popularity in Indonesia and apparently Australian Muslims use it too to a certain degree.

It's use predates ISIS.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_gold_dinar (external - login to view)

Interestingly, independent mints can all produce interchangeable gold dinars and silver dirhams. Though the face and design might differ, they all agree in weight and purity. This makes them all interchangeable in spite of their differing designs.
 
petros
+1
#12
It's called bullion.

Canadian mint sells 1kg bars and yes it's currency.

 
White_Unifier
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's called bullion.

Canadian mint sells 1kg bars and yes it's currency.

Inconvenient except for very expensive purchases. But useful in such cases, true.
 
Danbones
#14
Bullion Products (external - login to view)
 
White_Unifier
#15
The silver 'dollar' goes for 59.95 CAD. The gold '25-cent' coin is 129.95 CAD.

Even the silver coin would be worth too much to buy a candy bar. With that, we'd probably need to consider creating bronze, yellow copper and copper-nickel coins too. A silver coin might be fine for buying groceries with, and a gold coin for more expensive less common items.

That raises a question. How did Canadians buy a simple candy bar all those years ago? I guess if a one-cent coin could buy a candy bar, that might be around the right value for it, though that could make it difficult to buy a single gum ball from a vending machine. I guess nothing can ever be perfect, but though a higher value would make it more difficult to buy very cheap products like a single gum ball in a vending machine for example, that inconvenience would be more than made up for in a person's ability to carry high-valued currency without bulging his wallet.

I could see something like this:

A bronze 1-dollar coin, a yellow-copper 5-dollar coin, and a copper-nickel 10-dollar coin. A silver dirham and gold dinar could serve as separate floating currencies for more expensive purchases.

Of course that presents its own problems since then the dirham, the dinar, and the dollars would fluctuate between one anther. But equilibrium would eventually be reached with only minor fluctuation once stability is gained. Also, we already have fluctuating currencies around the world. So if we need to deal with fluctuation between only three different currencies (or a maximum of five if we decide to allow fluctuation between bronze, yellow copper and copper-nickel too), that's still far fewer world currencies than what we presently have.
 
spaminator
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's called bullion.

Canadian mint sells 1kg bars and yes it's currency.

that is such bullion.
 
White_Unifier
#17
40,309.68 CAD. The bar is not something you take to the mall to shop with, but it could make for a nice downpayment on a house. Even for a less expensive new car, you'd be asking if they could break a bar.
 
petros
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

The silver 'dollar' goes for 59.95 CAD. The gold '25-cent' coin is 129.95 CAD.

Even the silver coin would be worth too much to buy a candy bar. With that, we'd probably need to consider creating bronze, yellow copper and copper-nickel coins too. A silver coin might be fine for buying groceries with, and a gold coin for more expensive less common items.

That raises a question. How did Canadians buy a simple candy bar all those years ago? I guess if a one-cent coin could buy a candy bar, that might be around the right value for it, though that could make it difficult to buy a single gum ball from a vending machine. I guess nothing can ever be perfect, but though a higher value would make it more difficult to buy very cheap products like a single gum ball in a vending machine for example, that inconvenience would be more than made up for in a person's ability to carry high-valued currency without bulging his wallet.

I could see something like this:

A bronze 1-dollar coin, a yellow-copper 5-dollar coin, and a copper-nickel 10-dollar coin. A silver dirham and gold dinar could serve as separate floating currencies for more expensive purchases.

Of course that presents its own problems since then the dirham, the dinar, and the dollars would fluctuate between one anther. But equilibrium would eventually be reached with only minor fluctuation once stability is gained. Also, we already have fluctuating currencies around the world. So if we need to deal with fluctuation between only three different currencies (or a maximum of five if we decide to allow fluctuation between bronze, yellow copper and copper-nickel too), that's still far fewer world currencies than what we presently have.

Maybe a gingerbread man is more your speed?


$20 for $20 Fine Silver Coin (external - login to view)



They used semi precious metal called copper and nickel to buy candies back in the day.

Do you remember the copper penny?

Eventually the copper in the penny became worth more than the penny so they were then aluminum and ended as steel.

Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

40,309.68 CAD. The bar is not something you take to the mall to shop with, but it could make for a nice downpayment on a house. Even for a less expensive new car, you'd be asking if they could break a bar.

That's not how it works.
 
White_Unifier
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Maybe a gingerbread man is more your speed?


$20 for $20 Fine Silver Coin (external - login to view)



They used semi precious metal called copper and nickel to buy candies back in the day.

Do you remember the copper penny?

Eventually the copper in the penny became worth more than the penny so they were then aluminum and ended as steel.

Yup. Even 20.00 can be high, but within a common range for most common daily purchases. At least bronze, copper, copper nickel, silver and gold can hedge against inflation the way fiat can't.

It would end constant labour disputes and renegotiating labour contracts, strikes, lockouts etc. caused by inflation.

Once a contract is signed, all parties could then stick to it for many years and decades so as to avoid new labour-management conflicts.
 
petros
#20
Maybe you need to learn more?

A Canadian "Gold Bank"......Investment Products | ScotiaMocatta (external - login to view)

Globally, we have different distribution channels and delivery options for commercial and institutional clients depending on where you are located. Please note products are subject to a premium, and a minimum quantity may be required. For further information, please contact your local or closest ScotiaMocatta global office.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specie (external - login to view)
 
White_Unifier
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Maybe you need to learn more?

A Canadian "Gold Bank"......Investment Products | ScotiaMocatta (external - login to view)

Globally, we have different distribution channels and delivery options for commercial and institutional clients depending on where you are located. Please note products are subject to a premium, and a minimum quantity may be required. For further information, please contact your local or closest ScotiaMocatta global office.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specie (external - login to view)

But do all these coins conform to a common weight and purity? If not, then calculating their interchangeability at the local food market could prove tricky.

World Islamic Mint (external - login to view)

Now this is interesting. As per today's rate, 1 gold dinars is worth 190.00 USD and a silver dirham 6.00 USD. At that rate, one dirham would be reasonable for most daily transactions while the dinar would be useful for more expensive purchases.

https://www.e-dinar.com/cgi/index.cg...nardirham&a=_4 (external - login to view)
Welcome to Dinarshops Network (external - login to view)

So they already have their dinar and dirham mint, bank and e-dinar account, and a worldwide network of businesses that accept payment in dinars and dirham

My only question now is whether they'd accept non-Muslim participation.

A simple solution if not would be for a non-Muslim mint to create dinars and dirhams according to the same standards as the Muslim ones along with a non-Muslim bank and e-account and business network.

They got something good going for them. Why should we be left out?

Welcome to Dinarshops Network (external - login to view)

Wow! I never realised how many businesses in the UK accept gold dinars and silver dirhams!
 
petros
+1
#22
That's great. Now we can sell more Maples and bullion to Saudis to mint their Donair cuz unlike Canada they don't control the gold supply.

What sort of deal can be "struck" so they don't f-ck us on oil prices and we don't f-ck them on gold prices?

57% of the world’s public mining companies are listed on the TSX and TSX-Venture Exchanges. Together, the two exchanges accounted for 53% of the equity capital raised globally for mining in 2015, totalling $6.8 billion.
 
selfsame
+1
#23
Truly in the economic and the financial, I don't understand much But there is such idea that the paper currency is something else than the gold and silver.

For this reason, in the Quran God dispraised those who hoard up the gold and silver and don't spend that in God's way in the charity, and God promised them with the Hell fire in the Next Life

Quran 9: 34, which means:
{34. Believers, [beware of rabbis and monks; because] many of [Jewish priests:] rabbis and [Christian] monks devour the wealth of people a unjustly, and impede [people] from God's way. b

And they who hoard up gold and silver and expend them not c for the sake of God – foretell them the tidings of a grievous chastisement [in the Next Life d.]

35. On the day when such [gold and silver] shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be seared therewith! "This is [the reward of] that which you stored up for yourselves; taste then [the chastisement of the gold and silver] that you hoarded up.”}
.................................................. .....................

34 a They devour the property of people in the name of religion, and they take the bribe to judge people [with injustice.]

34 b i.e. from His religion: the Islam religion.

34 c On the needy, the poor, the wretched, orphans, and widows.

34 d Whether they are Jews, Christians or Muslims; because God dislikes every nig gard and stingy one.

quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34
Last edited by selfsame; 1 week ago at 03:32 PM..
 
White_Unifier
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That's great. Now we can sell more Maples and bullion to Saudis to mint their Donair cuz unlike Canada they don't control the gold supply.

What sort of deal can be "struck" so they don't f-ck us on oil prices and we don't f-ck them on gold prices?

Or we could do what they do:

1. Conform the Gold Mapleleaf to the standards of the dinar and the Silver Mapleleaf to the dirham. That way, they'd be interchangeable on a 1:1 basis.

Then organise a network of banks and shops that will accept the Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs (and by extension, dinars and dirham on a 1:1 basis gold for gold, silver for silver.

There you'd have to beginnings of a practical gold and silver currency.

According to the site I linked to above, not one shop in Canada accepts dinars and dirhams. One shop in the US accepts them. Over 80 in the UK and even more in Malaysia abd Indonesia and elsewhere.

Si at least in North America, if the Canadian mint and businesses play their cards right, we might be able to get Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs traded in some shops before the d and d here.

You said Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs are traded in normal daily trade. Is there a network of shops that accept them that you can tell me about?

When I was reading the links above, it turns out that the dinar netwirk, though perhaps started by Muslims, is not strictly a Muslim network, only Muslim inspired. Apparently it does welcome non-Muslims too.

Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

Truly in the economic and the financial, I don't understand much But there is such idea that the paper currency is something else than the gold and silver.
For this reason, in the Quran God dispraised those who hoard up the gold and silver and don't spend that in God's way in the charity, and God promised them with the Hell fire in the Next Life
Quran 9: 34, which means:
{34. Believers, [beware of rabbis and monks; because] many of [Jewish priests:] rabbis and [Christian] monks devour the wealth of people a unjustly, and impede [people] from God's way. b
And they who hoard up gold and silver and expend them not c for the sake of God foretell them the tidings of a grievous chastisement [in the Next Life d.]
35. On the day when such [gold and silver] shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be seared therewith! "This is [the reward of] that which you stored up for yourselves; taste then [the chastisement of the gold and silver]...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.

Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

Truly in the economic and the financial, I don't understand much But there is such idea that the paper currency is something else than the gold and silver.
For this reason, in the Quran God dispraised those who hoard up the gold and silver and don't spend that in God's way in the charity, and God promised them with the Hell fire in the Next Life
Quran 9: 34, which means:
{34. Believers, [beware of rabbis and monks; because] many of [Jewish priests:] rabbis and [Christian] monks devour the wealth of people a unjustly, and impede [people] from God's way. b
And they who hoard up gold and silver and expend them not c for the sake of God foretell them the tidings of a grievous chastisement [in the Next Life d.]
35. On the day when such [gold and silver] shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be seared therewith! "This is [the reward of] that which you stored up for yourselves; taste then [the chastisement of the gold and silver]...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.
 
selfsame
#25
Although in other ayat, God also dispraised those who collect money without spending it for the charity in God's way and for the sake of God.

Like in the Quran soora 104, which means:
{1. Woe to everyone mocking [at people:] by making signs [with his hands or eyebrows], or saying words [with his tongue.]

2. Who collects money and starts to count it [but he does not pay alms out of it in the way of God.]

3. Deeming his money would keep him [alive in this World] forever.

4. By no means; surely he will be thrust into [Hell] 'that will break into several pieces'.

5. And can you imagine 'that which will break into pieces'?

[Then He be glorified explained it by His saying:]

6. [It is] the Fire of God, kindled [to a blaze.]

7. Which goes [inside their souls] reaching [their spiritual] hearts.

8. It will be [an enclosure] closed over them.

9. [They will be hanged in that fire] on adjoined pillars [like the posts of the electricity and the wire telephone.]}

More information is in the link:
quran-ayat.com/pret/104.htm#a104_1 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat.com/pret/104.htm#a104_1
Last edited by selfsame; 1 week ago at 04:03 PM..
 
petros
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

Or we could do what they do:

1. Conform the Gold Mapleleaf to the standards of the dinar and the Silver Mapleleaf to the dirham. That way, they'd be interchangeable on a 1:1 basis.

Then organise a network of banks and shops that will accept the Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs (and by extension, dinars and dirham on a 1:1 basis gold for gold, silver for silver.

There you'd have to beginnings of a practical gold and silver currency.

According to the site I linked to above, not one shop in Canada accepts dinars and dirhams. One shop in the US accepts them. Over 80 in the UK and even more in Malaysia abd Indonesia and elsewhere.

Si at least in North America, if the Canadian mint and businesses play their cards right, we might be able to get Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs traded in some shops before the d and d here.

You said Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs are traded in normal daily trade. Is there a network of shops that accept them that you can tell me about?

When I was reading the links above, it turns out that the dinar netwirk, though perhaps started by Muslims, is not strictly a Muslim network, only Muslim inspired. Apparently it does welcome non-Muslims too.



Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.



Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.

Why?

Other than oil what do the Saudis have to back the Donair? Nothing. They have no choice.

You can get spot price for a Canadian gold or silver Maple anywhere in the world.

There are shops that have no issue with you taking a pair of clippers and lopping off a quater gram as an example to exchange for goods, services or local currency.

It's how it's done in India as an example.
Last edited by petros; 1 week ago at 03:43 PM..
 
White_Unifier
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Why?

Other than oil what do the Saudis have to back the Donair? Nothing. They have no choice.

You can get spot price for a Canadian gold or silver Maple anywhere in the world.

There are shops that have no issue with you taking a pair of clippers and lopping off a quater gram to exchange for goods, services or local currency.

It's how it's done in India.

The dinar is not backed by gold. It is gold. Though the e-dinar is backed by real physical gold in Dubai I think.

While the Mapleleaf is strictly an investment tool, the dinar and dirham are practically traded in shops, restaurants, etc. Show me a pizza shop that accepts Gold or silver Malleleafs. Show me a bank that allows me to do interac transactions with different kinds of businesses in gold or silver Malleleafs.

Does a Mapleleaf business network even exist?

At best, you can trade them for money, nothing else.
 
selfsame
#28
Moreover, it is in the Quran 70: 18
{15. No, assuredly [he will not be saved; for] it is a blaze.

16. That plucks out the scalp.

17. It shall invite [all] such as turn their backs [from believing in God] and turn away [from believing His messenger.]

18. And hoards [money] and stores it [in the safe.] h}
.................................................. .................

18 h So that he keeps it in the vessel and does not spend out of it in the way of God.
The meaning: The ‘Blaze’ will draw them with its gravitational power.

More explanation is at the link:
quran-ayat.com/pret/70.htm#a70_18 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat.com/pret/70.htm#a70_18

================================================== =====================

I think, in the past the gold dinar equalled 10 silver dirhams or drakhma.

Of course, it is not: Give me your gold and you will not go to Hell.
But give to God: that is give to the poor and needy; it is you yourself that expend, which should be for God's sake, not for the hypocrisy or showing to people.
So the expending in secret is better, although all of it is good, the public and the secret expenditure .. on condition that it be for God's sake, not for the sake of religious figures or their tombs or associating them with God: that is for God's sake and for their sake.
 
petros
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post


Does a Mapleleaf business network even exist?

At best, you can trade them for money, nothing else.

Holy crap are you ever naive. Travel sometime maybe you'll learn that gold is and always will be currency. Just because it's not used the way notes are used in Canada or the US doesn't mean the rest of the world uses notes.

India is a perfect example of where you can lop a piece off a maple and buy a meal. It's gold. Gold is currency.
 
selfsame
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Holy crap are you ever naive. Travel sometime maybe you'll learn that gold is and always will be currency. Just because it's not used the way notes are used in Canada or the US doesn't mean the rest of the world uses notes.

India is a perfect example of where you can lop a piece off a maple and buy a meal. It's gold. Gold is currency.

There is an obvious difference between the gold and the currency here:

When you give gold, the goldsmith will buy it from you, but when he sells it to you, he sells it as a jewellery work, so when you give him a signet ring for example he will buy it from you as gold, but when he sells the ring for you, he sells it at a higher price as a worked out piece of jewellary gold.
 

Similar Threads

0
8
Why Gold and Silver Have Declined
by Albertabound | Feb 7th, 2011
1
Nanoscale Silver: No Silver Lining?
by hermanntrude | Sep 15th, 2008
no new posts