The gold dinar and the silver dirham.


petros
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious CdnView Post

India is a perfect example of where you can lop a piece off a maple and buy a meal. It's gold. Gold is currency.

Big deal. You can break off a piece of bouillon in Canada for a meal, too.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouillon_cube (external - login to view)

Livin large.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

But, you said we would base the value of the gold coins on u.s. dollars or Canadian dollars. Do you want me to quote where you said that?

Nice guy but it's a real bitch to teach him something.
 
White_Unifier
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

But, you said we would base the value of the gold coins on u.s. dollars or Canadian dollars. Do you want me to quote where you said that?

I never said that. I said we could exchange it for US, Canadian or any other currency according to market price. The Gold dinar and Silver dirham ate based on their own intrinsic values.
 
petros
#63
No. They are bound to spot just like any other precious metal coin.

Spot Price Definition | Investopedia (external - login to view)
 
White_Unifier
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

No. They are bound to spot just like any other precious metal coin.

Spot Price Definition | Investopedia (external - login to view)

So how is it possible for an international network of businesses to accept gold and silver as currency?

Even the CAD itself can fluctuate drastically, yet we still use it. In fact, due to its ever inflating tendency, it's even worse and we still manage to use it.
 
petros
#65
If a commodity is priced in USD and the USD drops the spot price goes up.
 
White_Unifier
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If a commodity is priced in USD and the USD drops the spot price goes up.

Yes. But what of it? For example, suppose that a quality loaf of artisanal bread goes for one dirham. What would the CAD or USD have to do with that? It would be a direct exchange of a dirham for a loaf of bread. In other words, the dirham would be worth a loaf of bread.
 
gerryh
#67
https://www.e-dinar.com/cgi/?page=dinardirham&a=_4 (external - login to view)


you supplied the above link.Explain to me why the price of a 1 coin, 5 coin, or 8 coin is different on a per unit basis with the 1 coin being a single unit.
 
petros
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

Yes. But what of it? For example, suppose that a quality loaf of artisanal bread goes for one dirham. What would the CAD or USD have to do with that? It would be a direct exchange of a dirham for a loaf of bread. In other words, the dirham would be worth a loaf of bread.

Both wheat and gold flactuate in relation to the USD. You overpay for the loaf until wheat, labour and overhead exceed the spot prices of the commodities smoothed.
 
White_Unifier
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

https://www.e-dinar.com/cgi/?page=dinardirham&a=_4 (external - login to view)


you supplied the above link.Explain to me why the price of a 1 coin, 5 coin, or 8 coin is different on a per unit basis with the 1 coin being a single unit.

Do you mean why the USD value if one dinar is more than the USD value for five or eight?

I don't know. Maybe they're taking practical shipping costs into account? Though the weight is the same, the ratio of the value of the coin to packaging and delivery is greater?

That's just my guess.

But common sense dictates that if an 8 dinar coin contains eight times the Gold of a one dinar coin, that its intrinsic value is eight times as much.

With that in mind, it would make sense to buy the more expensive coin if you are thinking of investment. Or you might still want to buy the smaller coin for practical exchanges on a smaller scale.

Elsewhere on that site, you can also buy e-dinars that are backed by dinars held ii their vault. This means they save on shipping and maybe even minting costs since they could just subtract it from a gold bar in their vault.

Remember to that others might sell the same coins at a different price. It's a free market rate after all and it might be worth shopping for the best deal.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Both wheat and gold flactuate in relation to the USD. You overpay for the loaf until wheat, labour and overhead exceed the spot prices of the commodities smoothed.

Actually, the dirham is made of silver, not gold.

But I think I get your point. Does the same point not apply to the CAD? Do Canadian shops raise and lower their prices on US imports daily?

By the way, not only do gold, silver and wheat fluctuate relative to the US dollar, but the US dollar also fluctuates relative to other commodities too. In the end, it's all a moving target.
 
gerryh
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post


By the way, not only do gold, silver and wheat fluctuate relative to the US dollar, but the US dollar also fluctuates relative to other commodities too. In the end, it's all a moving target.



Then what is the advantage of changing?
 
White_Unifier
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Then what is the advantage of changing?

Gold and silver are comparatively more stable. For example, if a silver dirham can buy two loafs of bread today, it could probably buy somewhere between one to three loafs of the same bread a thousand years ago and will still be able to buy roughly the same a thousand years from now. While gold does inflate and deflate, its inflation and deflation rates neutralise one another over time for the most part. Same with silver.

Not so with fiat currency that a central bank purposely tries to keep at a permanent inflation rate of 2% a year.

This means that workers in a fiat-currecy contract will need to strike again in a few years' time to renegotiate their wages. Though they could tolerate daily currency fluctuations, they can't tolerate constant long term depreciation.

Gold and silver do not depreciate over the long term. Any short-term depreciation will always be followed by appreciation to counterbalance it sooner or later so as to bring it back to around the original value. With fiat, the long term trend is constant depreciation.

With this, we see that a gold or silver currency can actually improve labour-management relations since once they can agree to a safe, while theuly can accept daily fluctuation, they know their wages will remain around the same over the long term in real value.
 
petros
+1
#72
All you are seeing is Saudis copying Nations like Canada who use notes and hard currency like the Maple. They didn't come up with something new. Even the US saw the high demand for Maples and reintroduced the Eagle.

Quote:

old and silver are comparatively more stable. For example, if a silver dirham can buy two loafs of bread today, it could probably buy somewhere between one to three loafs of the same bread a thousand years ago and will still be able to buy roughly the same a thousand years from now.

5 years ago it would have bought 5 loaves now it's just two yet wheat and USD have been stable.

Gold and silver are just as volatile.
 
White_Unifier
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

All you are seeing is Saudis copying Nations like Canada who use notes and hard currency like the Maple. They didn't come up with something new. Even the US saw the high demand for Maples and reintroduced the Eagle.

5 years ago it would have bought 5 loaves now it's just two yet wheat and USD have been stable.

Gold and silver are just as volatile.

Not over the long term.

Also, it may be that the Muslim mints just copied Canada. But if so, they were like the Japanese who copied the US car but made it better or the US that copied the Italian pizza but made it better.

Whereas Canada, the US, the UK etc. all create their own gold and silver coins each according to different weights, dimensions, fesign s and other standards making them less easily interchangeable with one another, Muslim gold and silver mints have established a common standard for the Gold and silver dirham.

Why couldn't Canada, the US, the UK, etc. all agree to a common standard of their own? That why though the Canadian mint might print a Mapleleaf, the US mint an eagle, etc., their coins would be interchangeable at a 1:1 ratio for gold and silver respectively and so make them more practical.

Since Muslim states have already established a reasonable stars, why reinvent the wheel? Why not just copy their standard and produce Royal-Canadian-Mint dinars and dirhams according to the same universal standard?
 
Danbones
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Then it is just another currency which achieves it's value from another. What is the benefit?

Plus, it's value fluctuates.

the gold value isn't what fluctuates...its the rest of the fake currencies that fluctuate:
while the purveyors of the debt based currencies steal the value through interest and inflation.
 
petros
#75
The Riyadh is their paper currency and some jackass is creating a way for ISIS to back their copper and bronze.

Anybody can mint a coinage. A $6 golden beer token sat on for three football season is a $9 beer three year later if that obligation can be met. If the price of beer drops to $4 because beer got cheaper doesn't mean gold went up but the dollar gained more purchasing value.

Gold or dirty pot metal the token/coin is good for one delicious beer.
 
White_Unifier
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

The Riyadh is their paper currency and some jackass is creating a way for ISIS to back their copper and bronze.

Anybody can mint a coinage. A $6 golden beer token sat on for three football season is a $9 beer three year later if that obligation can be met. If the price of beer drops to $4 because beer got cheaper doesn't mean gold went up but the dollar gained more purchasing value.

Gold or dirty pot metal the token/coin is good for one delicious beer.

Over that same period, 1/2 dinar might buy one bottle, later two bottles, and eventually one bottle again.
 
gerryh
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by DanbonesView Post

the gold value isn't what fluctuates...its the rest of the fake currencies that fluctuate:
while the purveyors of the debt based currencies steal the value through interest and inflation.


How is/was the "gold value" determined?
 
White_Unifier
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by DanbonesView Post

the gold value isn't what fluctuates...its the rest of the fake currencies that fluctuate:
while the purveyors of the debt based currencies steal the value through interest and inflation.

Not entirely true. The value of gold and silver themselves can fluctuate even in relation to grains and goats according to the laws of supply and demand.

However, since we do not yet possess the necessary technology to convert base metals into gold for example, we have little control over the supply. No central bank can just produce gold or silver at will, and so the supply remains comparatively stable in relation to demand.

In the case of fiat currency, banks can produce as much as they want, at least in principle, and consequently the supply is ever growing in relation to the demand, and this results in continuous long-term depreciation of the currency.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

How is/was the "gold value" determined?

It has always been determined by supply and demand, just like fiat currencies.

But unlike fiat currencies, central banks can't just produce more of it.
 

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