Should we prohibit prisoners'-dilemma marketting?

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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I'd been thinking of something recently. I'd been wondering for a while why my bank would give me a no-fee credit card and then even give me cash back for using it to boot. Pretty generous of them eh? It's like cash falling from heaven. But where does this cash from heaven come from?
Anyway, recently I'd come across a shop asking that had put up a sign asking us to use debit or cash, informing us that when we use our credit card, it costs the business a lot of money.
Then I started thinking about this. Essentially, the bank is giving me money to encourage me to use my credit card. But then it charges the shop for my using my credit card. Needless to say, unless the shop passes that cost on to me as a customer in some way, it would go bankrupt, so if it is not charging me directly for the product, or giving me some kind of discount for not using my credit card, then I must assume it's just included in the price.
Also, equally needless to say, the only way the credit card company can stay in business is if the amount it gives me is less than the amount it charges the shop. This means that the shop is topping the price up more than the credit card company is giving me back in cash-back 'rewards'. Essentially it's a hidden fee, apparently disconnected from my action but in fact a direct consequence of it, an attempt to hide the true cost of my transaction from me.
This also creates a prisoners' dilemma. If I use my credit card but no one else does, then, unless the shop passes the cost on to me directly in some way, I find myself benefitting from the cash-back rewards while everyone else is helping to pay for the transaction. In that case I'm likely coming up on top (even if the price of the product goes up by 1 cent as a result, but I get two cents cash back, I'm still coming out on top).
If everyone else is using their credit cards, but I'm not using mine, then the overhead cost to the company skyrockets, resulting in higher fees for everyone, including me, yet I don't even get any cash-back rewards.
This is a classic prisoners' dilemma. The ideal scenario is that no one uses their credit cards. As a result, the shop can drop its prices for everyone. If some people use their cards and others don't, those who don't are at a disadvantage over those who do. And if everyone uses their credit cards, tehn everyone is on an equal footing paying higher fees while receiving less in rewards, but at least equal as inefficient as it may be.
This also creates a prisoner's dilemma for the shop. If the cardholder gives no thought to this, he may insist on shopping where his card is accepted to get the cash back, without actually thinking about how this affects the price he actually pays for the product. This therefore puts pressure on the shop for customer satisfaction reasons to not pass the cost on to the customer and instead absorb it into the price of the product.
If the government passed some kind of law preventing businesses from exploiting game theory in any unethical manner, this would essentially prevent this kind of thing to happen. For instance, it might prohibit credit card companies from charging businesses for allowing their customers to use their credit card, thus forcing the credit card to charge only the credit-card holder for any transaction made on his card. This woudl make us more aware of the real cost of using our credit card while also ensuring that any costs incurred for the use of one's credit card is accrused to the user only and not shared by other customers.
If we extended such a law to unethical psychological manipulation to encourage people to buy more than what they normally would (depending on how exactly the law were worded), this could lead to preventing companies from introducing any kind of loyalty programme like Subway points, etc. and compete instead on just the best product at the best price. In that way, people don't feel like they need to buy one more meal to get their free meal for example.

Any thoughts on this?
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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I have a card that pays me 3% cash back. I use it as much as I can and pay off the balance every month. Since I can't control what others do, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. What I will say is that things take care of themselves. It's called the underground economy.
 

Machjo

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I have a card that pays me 3% cash back. I use it as much as I can and pay off the balance every month. Since I can't control what others do, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. What I will say is that things take care of themselves. It's called the underground economy.

But are you sure that everyone using their credit card is not pushing the price of the product or service up by more than 3%? If so, would that not then defeat the purpose?

As for myself, I also have a deck of loyalty cards for this restaurant, that shop, etc. I might as well start drawing kings and queens and hearts and spades on them to serve a dual purpose seeing that I have to carry them all with me anyway.

Why not just ban this and let them compete on price and quality rather than have us have to carry decks of cards everywhere to participate in all sorts of marketing gimmicks?
 

Cannuck

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But are you sure that everyone using their credit card is not pushing the price of the product or service up by more than 3%? If so, would that not then defeat the purpose?
I'm not sure. I can only go by the businesses I know of and in those instances, they are not. Even if they were, it is still my choice to buy from them or to go underground.


Why not just ban this and let them compete on price and quality rather than have us have to carry decks of cards everywhere to participate in all sorts of marketing gimmicks?

You only need one card
 

Machjo

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You only need one card

I'm talkiing about things like Subway points cards and such. Restaurants are notorious for this. You know, by x meals and get the next one free? Why not just ban these programmes and compete on price and quality. Scrap the gimmicks.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I have a card that pays me 3% cash back. I use it as much as I can and pay off the balance every month. Since I can't control what others do, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. What I will say is that things take care of themselves. It's called the underground economy.

What card pay 3 % cashback? Does it have yearly fees?
 

Cannuck

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What card pay 3 % cashback? Does it have yearly fees?

ATB gold MasterCard. I think a hundred dollar yearly fee but the cash back more than covers it. I use it for everything I can and usually put 3 - 4 thousand a month on it minimum. Plus I did 50,000 in home renos this year so that's 1500 alone. Some items are only 1% cash back though.
 

Goober

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ATB gold MasterCard. I think a hundred dollar yearly fee but the cash back more than covers it. I use it for everything I can and usually put 3 - 4 thousand a month on it minimum. Plus I did 50,000 in home renos this year so that's 1500 alone. Some items are only 1% cash back though.

Thanks
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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But are you sure that everyone using their credit card is not pushing the price of the product or service up by more than 3%? If so, would that not then defeat the purpose?

The problem is, people have proven they will pay said price, even without a 3% cash back card, so, if we banned them all, prices would stay the same.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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What card pay 3 % cashback? Does it have yearly fees?


Most cards that pay cash back not only have a yearly fee to encourage you to use them plentifully to cover the cost, they ALSO have higher interest rates. It's a ploy to get you to spend and get behind and pay interest (made up money). Which is a point I wanted to make to Machjo, that's part of where the money comes from, not just from retailers covering the costs. Interest on specialty cards is awful.
 

Cannuck

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Most cards that pay cash back not only have a yearly fee to encourage you to use them plentifully to cover the cost, they ALSO have higher interest rates. It's a ploy to get you to spend and get behind and pay interest (made up money). Which is a point I wanted to make to Machjo, that's part of where the money comes from, not just from retailers covering the costs. Interest on specialty cards is awful.

Ya, mine is something outrageous like 19% (I'm not sure of the exact rate as I never carry a balance). It's better to have a LOC on your checking acct if you need to go into debt
 

Goober

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Most cards that pay cash back not only have a yearly fee to encourage you to use them plentifully to cover the cost, they ALSO have higher interest rates. It's a ploy to get you to spend and get behind and pay interest (made up money). Which is a point I wanted to make to Machjo, that's part of where the money comes from, not just from retailers covering the costs. Interest on specialty cards is awful.

I have a Costco Amex- so 2 % from Amex & 2 % from Costco at the end of year for purchases -no fee for the Amex card- pay it off ahead of time- We do that with all our credit cards.
More than covers my membership fee at Costco.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Most cards that pay cash back not only have a yearly fee to encourage you to use them plentifully to cover the cost, they ALSO have higher interest rates. It's a ploy to get you to spend and get behind and pay interest (made up money). Which is a point I wanted to make to Machjo, that's part of where the money comes from, not just from retailers covering the costs. Interest on specialty cards is awful.

Hmmm... I somehow doubt it. I'd immagine most of us just make sure we have the money in the bank before we charge anything to the card just to collect the 'rewards' and then set it up for free automatic payment from the checking account every month.

While I'm sure they make some money from the interest rate, I doubt it's that much.
 

Goober

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Hmmm... I somehow doubt it. I'd immagine most of us just make sure we have the money in the bank before we charge anything to the card just to collect the 'rewards' and then set it up for free automatic payment from the checking account every month.

While I'm sure they make some money from the interest rate, I doubt it's that much.

Nope- many do not
Canadian household debt hits new high - Business - CBC News

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-x/2012002/article/11636-eng.pdf