Things are getting Tense along the BC Border.

CanadianLove

Electoral Member
Feb 7, 2009
504
4
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I laughed my a$$ off at both of these.

CTV British Columbia- Mountie fires through own windshield during chase - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

CTV British Columbia- B.C. man who said 'please' at border pepper sprayed - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

BLAINE, WA — A British Columbian man who wanted a U.S. border inspector to say please got a face full of pepper spray instead.


Desiderio Fortunato, of Coquitlam, B.C., says he thought the guard who told him to turn off his engine Monday at the Pacific Highway crossing was rude and asked him to say please.


The 54-year-old says he was stunned and blinded as he was sprayed, pulled out of the car and handcuffed.


He was detained about three hours.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Mike Milne says it was a lawful order that travellers must obey but the use of force is under review.


Fortunato crosses the border two or three times a week to visit his second home in Blaine, Wash., and says inspectors are mostly courteous.
 

turubawebmaster

New Member
Oct 18, 2006
48
0
6
Ontario
too much scrunity along the border these days... it should be open like the european countries... we are the friendliest border until the bush admin... because of that theres just a bunch of bull**** going on along the us-canada border... we could tighten canada and us along the coastline and mexican border
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Desiderio Fortunato, of Coquitlam, B.C., says he thought the guard who told him to turn off his engine Monday at the Pacific Highway crossing was rude and asked him to say please.

He wanted the guard to say ‘please’? Is he crazy? People evidently are not aware of the sweeping power that Custom and Immigration officials at the border possess.

A border guard (or Customs official) can ask you any questions; he has to total authority to deny you entry into the country. There is no appeal of that decision. The only person one could appeal to is the guard himself, and try to get him to reverse his decision.

If he suspects you of some crime, some deceit, he has the authority to put you in jail. After that the due process of law takes over, of course. But you could remain in jail for months trying to sort it out.

Asking a border guard to say please would be like going to Britain and giving the Queen the finger.

The only proper thing to do when at the border is to answer truthfully all the questions that are asked, not be a smart Alec, and be cooperative as much as possible (though I don’t think you have to volunteer information).

Being a frequent international traveler, the Custom officials are rude sometimes. I wouldn’t even dream of trying to teach them manners.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
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too much scrunity along the border these days... it should be open like the european countries... we are the friendliest border until the bush admin... because of that theres just a bunch of bull**** going on along the us-canada border... we could tighten canada and us along the coastline and mexican border

An American friend and I were just having this discussion yesterday ironically enough.

When you travel in Europe, border security is necessarily loose. Tightening it up would be almost impossible, and would stifle trade and tourism. But, what we see as so free and easy going, evaporates when you hit tourist areas, and are milling about with armed military personnel packing machine guns. Canada and the US do the opposite... tighter security at the borders, and a lower military presence throughout the cities.

It's a trade off. Personally, since there's only one border, I'd rather 'waste' some of my time dealing with rudeness and inconvenience there, than dealing with armed military personnel elsewhere, who run the same human risks of being rude, etc.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
An American friend and I were just having this discussion yesterday ironically enough.

When you travel in Europe, border security is necessarily loose. Tightening it up would be almost impossible, and would stifle trade and tourism. But, what we see as so free and easy going, evaporates when you hit tourist areas, and are milling about with armed military personnel packing machine guns. Canada and the US do the opposite... tighter security at the borders, and a lower military presence throughout the cities.

It's a trade off. Personally, since there's only one border, I'd rather 'waste' some of my time dealing with rudeness and inconvenience there, than dealing with armed military personnel elsewhere, who run the same human risks of being rude, etc.

and where is this happening? My Son was in Italy last year, no mention of armed military at all. This year, he was in Germany, Holand, Belgium, France, and London England...again, no mention of armed military.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
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Mountain Veiw County
What I find odd is that returning from the US via Ottawa or Montreal, the trip through Canada customs is a non event. Going though US customs in Montreal is an ordeal, and at least one of my co-workers is searched every time, like what would we be bringing th the US, expensive booze? Tobacco? Firearms? Another oddidty is that I'm always addressed in French first by any and all US customs officials there, hmmm.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
4,597
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49° 19' N, 123° 4' W
I laughed my a$$ off at both of these.

CTV British Columbia- Mountie fires through own windshield during chase - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

CTV British Columbia- B.C. man who said 'please' at border pepper sprayed - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

BLAINE, WA — A British Columbian man who wanted a U.S. border inspector to say please got a face full of pepper spray instead.


Desiderio Fortunato, of Coquitlam, B.C., says he thought the guard who told him to turn off his engine Monday at the Pacific Highway crossing was rude and asked him to say please.


The 54-year-old says he was stunned and blinded as he was sprayed, pulled out of the car and handcuffed.


He was detained about three hours.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Mike Milne says it was a lawful order that travellers must obey but the use of force is under review.


Fortunato crosses the border two or three times a week to visit his second home in Blaine, Wash., and says inspectors are mostly courteous.

I read this story when it first broke, and what your post fails to mention is that this not the first time that fellow had a confrontation with the border guard over the very same thing. Obviously he doesn't get it.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
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Ottawa, ON
Desiderio Fortunato, of Coquitlam, B.C., says he thought the guard who told him to turn off his engine Monday at the Pacific Highway crossing was rude and asked him to say please.

He wanted the guard to say ‘please’? Is he crazy? People evidently are not aware of the sweeping power that Custom and Immigration officials at the border possess.

A border guard (or Customs official) can ask you any questions; he has to total authority to deny you entry into the country. There is no appeal of that decision. The only person one could appeal to is the guard himself, and try to get him to reverse his decision.

If he suspects you of some crime, some deceit, he has the authority to put you in jail. After that the due process of law takes over, of course. But you could remain in jail for months trying to sort it out.

Asking a border guard to say please would be like going to Britain and giving the Queen the finger.

The only proper thing to do when at the border is to answer truthfully all the questions that are asked, not be a smart Alec, and be cooperative as much as possible (though I don’t think you have to volunteer information).

Being a frequent international traveler, the Custom officials are rude sometimes. I wouldn’t even dream of trying to teach them manners.

Yes he was wrong in his behaviour. However, the officer clearly way overreacted. Would a simple please have hurt his jaw muscles that much?
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
4,597
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Yes he was wrong in his behaviour. However, the officer clearly way overreacted. Would a simple please have hurt his jaw muscles that much?

You don't demand someone be polite to you. Being polite should be sincere, that's why you worry about yourself, not others. If you want others to be polite then set the example of how you expect to be spoken to.

The border guard isn't there to be your chum, he's there to protect border integrity and he doesn't have to be polite whatsoever. In fact, I'm sure they're trained not to be polite. They need to be firm and focused at all times, being polite and cordial would only make a suspicious person relaxed, when in reality you want to make them uncomfortable so that you can see they might have something to hide.
 
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AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Seems to me we never had ANY trouble with other countries. The only times we had trouble was getting back into our own country. And once, that was by a Canuck guard who's family was friends with Les's family.

Anyway, it is not good to be rude with people. I don't care if you are a border guard, cop, or military. Rudeness is NOT taught in those careers as Alley would suggest, but they ARE supposed to be courteous. At any rate if the guy had problems with the same guard before he should not take it up with the guard but take it up with the guard's CO.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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Rudeness is NOT taught in those careers as Alley would suggest, but they ARE supposed to be courteous.

I'm not suggesting they're trained to be rude. I think they're trained to be all business, part of an image they need to display. Save the pleases and thankyous for your grandmothers birthday party.
 
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AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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I'm not suggesting they're trained to be rude. I think they're trained to be all business, part of an image they need to display. Save the pleases and thankyous for your grandmothers birthday party.
They are trained to do their jobs, but they are supposed to be courteous. Ask one sometime.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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They are trained to do their jobs, but they are supposed to be courteous. Ask one sometime.

I avoid that 12 foot strip of Gestapo land at all costs. Actually, I've never left Canada my entire life because I prefer to feel safe and comfortable with my surroundings.
 
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AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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I avoid that 12 foot strip of Gestapo land at all costs. Actually, I've never left Canada my entire life because I prefer to feel safe and comfortable with my surroundings.
Yet here you are telling everyone what border guards are like or what they should be like. hhhmmmmm
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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An American friend and I were just having this discussion yesterday ironically enough.

When you travel in Europe, border security is necessarily loose. Tightening it up would be almost impossible, and would stifle trade and tourism. But, what we see as so free and easy going, evaporates when you hit tourist areas, and are milling about with armed military personnel packing machine guns. Canada and the US do the opposite... tighter security at the borders, and a lower military presence throughout the cities.

It's a trade off. Personally, since there's only one border, I'd rather 'waste' some of my time dealing with rudeness and inconvenience there, than dealing with armed military personnel elsewhere, who run the same human risks of being rude, etc.

and where is this happening? My Son was in Italy last year, no mention of armed military at all. This year, he was in Germany, Holand, Belgium, France, and London England...again, no mention of armed military.

France. It is the only place where you see the military presence in the tourist areas. If you want to see them, go to the Eiffel tower.