9/11, an inside job?

Tonington
+1
#181
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Have those family members on 911truth.org been given the same disclosure as other families from other terrorist attacks?

I don't know. Nobody in my family was killed in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Quote:

Would you say they were given the same amount of disclosure as the familes of the Air India incident?

I don't know.

Quote:

How about Lockerbie?

I don't know.

Quote:

Do the family members of victimes deserve the same respect and inclusion as those in the past and undoubtedly again in the future?

Yes.

Quote:

If there is nothing to hide then why not give disclosure and answer their questions respectfully and truthfully?

I don't know. So far as I know the questions have been answered. Or do you mean they didn't get the answers they wanted? Hmmm.

Quote:

The whole pile are all ****ed in the noggin mental cases?

I never called them a mental case. I offered an explanation for why they might deny the facts surrounding the death of their loved ones. That doesn't make them mental cases, that makes them human.

Quote:

Who is vouching for you?

Despite your implication, I speak for myself thanks.
 
Kakato
+1
#182
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Ever heard of disclosure to get closure? Have those family members on 911truth.org been given the same disclosure as other families from other terrorist attacks? Would you say they were given the same amount of disclosure as the familes of the Air India incident? How about Lockerbie?

Do the family members of victimes deserve the same respect and inclusion as those in the past and undoubtedly again in the future?

If there is nothing to hide then why not give disclosure and answer their questions respectfully and truthfully?

The whole pile are all ****ed in the noggin mental cases?

Who is vouching for you?

You don't havfe to pay anybody off. You promote some yutz to a position that that pays beyond anything they seen before, let them put themselves into debt with new mortgages, cars, boats, holidays and the likes and they'll follow any story you toss at them or they can open their yap and lose it all.

What would you do?

The site created by the families of victims only contains verifiable facts. If it's not verifiable, it's not on there.

EDITORIAL POLICY

We carefully review the articles, books, videos, sites and other resources published and linked on this site. Of the many works about 9/11 now in circulation, we strive to promote the best.
- We urge everyone to fact-check, engage in due diligence, and research issues from all angles. It is important to expose mistakes, and we are happy to correct our own when these occur.
- Some works about 9/11 forward ungrounded claims based on misinterpretations, distortions or even fabricated evidence. Others reveal racist or extremist biases. We avoid both types of distraction by focusing on the most promising lines of inquiry and bodies of evidence; those that have stood up to the scrutiny of peer review, have been subjected to expert analysis, and as a result are winning in the court of public opinion.
- Beyond issues of factual content, we prefer to disengage from individuals who employ vitriol or highly-charged rhetoric. We value positive and sober approaches over heavy-handed ones that might alienate potential allies.

http://911truth.org/downloads/Family..._of_Report.pdf (external - login to view)

Debunking 9/11 does exactly that,debunks the crap on truth.org with FACTS,not hearsay,not mined quotes from someone writing a book or putting out a documentary. I'll take facts over hearsay or propaganda any day.
 
petros
#183
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Debunking 9/11 does exactly that,debunks the crap on truth.org with FACTS,not hearsay,not mined quotes from someone writing a book or putting out a documentary. I'll take facts over hearsay or propaganda any day.

Then you have no idea what they are about do you? If you did you'd know not a single question that was asked by victims familes was ever answered by the 911 Comission.

Go argue with them if you have all the answers. The boards there are wide open. Go for it. Go answer the questions they were requested to ask but were never answered. I'm sure they'd love it hear it from an expert such as yourself.
 
lone wolf
#184
You know these to be FACTS ... how?
 
petros
#185
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

I don't know. Nobody in my family was killed in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.



I don't know.



I don't know.



Yes.



I don't know. So far as I know the questions have been answered. Or do you mean they didn't get the answers they wanted? Hmmm.



I never called them a mental case. I offered an explanation for why they might deny the facts surrounding the death of their loved ones. That doesn't make them mental cases, that makes them human.



Despite your implication, I speak for myself thanks.

No? Never called them mental cases? So what type of person does believe in UFOs, JFK etc? Were you stating they are perfectly healthy mainstream individuals?

Answers? They never did get any answers to the questions they were requested to submit to the Commission. Can you show me the questions they asked and the answers they were given or are just speculating and chastising because it's the thing to do to distraught family members? Hmm?

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

You know these to be FACTS ... how?

Because they are verifiable. Can you prove them wrong?
 
lone wolf
#186
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post



Because they are verifiable. Can you prove them wrong?


Not my problem. Can you prove them right? ...considering there were "facts" flying around even before people on the scene got the chance to say "WTF?" and a lot of evidence is part of USS New York now.
 
Kakato
#187
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Then you have no idea what they are about do you? If you did you'd know not a single question that was asked by victims familes was ever answered by the 911 Comission.

Go argue with them if you have all the answers. The boards there are wide open. Go for it. Go answer the questions they were requested to ask but were never answered. I'm sure they'd love it hear it from an expert such as yourself.

It was answered,maybe get by the quote mining truth.org does and think for yourself and you might see some real truth,unlike truth.org,debunking 9/11 does not have an agenda or sell books or movies or documentary's or use the site to push their propaganda crap to make some bucks for themselves.
This is what truth.org does,uses gullible people like you to put some buck's in their pocket. What better avenue to milk the sheep then a conspiracy site like truth.org?
You fell for it....think of how many others did, I'll admit,they are smart,they know how to use fear to make a buck and it's just too bad theres guys like you out there that just fuel it by lapping it up. How's it feel to be used like that?

Check how many of the sites contributours are selling books or useing the free publicity for their own personal gain and dont give me that crap that they are about truth after you find out how many are actually doing that.

This is why sites like debunking 9/11 are out there,because guys like me are sick of the twisted peeps out there trying to line their pockets out of a tragedy like 9/11.
 
Tonington
#188
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

No? Never called them mental cases?

I don't know, you tell me. Have I ever called them mental cases?

Quote:

So what type of person does believe in UFOs, JFK etc? Were you stating they are perfectly healthy mainstream individuals?

Yeah...I don't believe in God or Allah or Ganesh either; that doesn't mean I think those that do are mental cases...
 
petros
#189
Then what do you think they are?
 
Kakato
#190
Read this,Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage (external - login to view)everything you need to know about all the bullshi* truth.org posts and why they post it,no movies documentary's or anything else for profit is on this site,they are the most non partisan non biased site on the net where 9/11 is concerned and cover everything any foiler or ct'r will throw at you and they also delve further into examining what makes a CT'r think the way they do and why they do it.
Every single question you can bring up about a conspiracy involving 9/11 is covered here,every single one.
 
Tonington
#191
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Then what do you think they are?

Wrong. I think they are wrong.
 
petros
#192
So it's okay to chastise, belittle, ostracize grieving people even if they are wrong? What if their rights to disclosure were denied? Is that the same as wrong?

Would supporting those grieving people in seeing their rights (right or wrong) are met make you a "truther"?
 
lone wolf
+1
#193
Truthers.... Foilers.... Sounds like some sort of video game....
 
Tonington
+1
#194
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

So it's okay to chastise, belittle, ostracize grieving people even if they are wrong? What if their rights to disclosure were denied? Is that the same as wrong?

Would supporting those grieving people in seeing their rights (right or wrong) are met make you a "truther"?

Where are you getting this? Where did I chastise? Where did I belittle? Where did I ostracize?

Holy crap, you asked a question, and then I gave an answer. The rest is you filling in the blanks. The ironic part about that is that those who do subscribe to conspiracy theories tend to fill in the blanks with assumptions. Many, many assumptions.

Have a nice evening!
 
petros
#195
Here are their questions.

911truth.org/downloads/Family..._of_Report.pdf (external - login to view)

Plenty went unanswered. Do you feel these are valid questions? Why no answers to very basic questions regarding chain of command? Do they sound conspiratorial? Do they threaten national security? Shouldn't people know why the Admin failed to protect their family members when they knew the strike was imminent?
 
Kakato
#196
Their all in on it. Read it carefully Petro's. Pay close attention to the first paragraph and this.
Quote:

The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less. (external - login to view)
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_I D=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=OnlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=13 0026

Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.
-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?
-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html (external - login to view)
-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/ (external - login to view)
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.
-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.
-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?
-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...
-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers
who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA
who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.

-The Silverstein Group
who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines
(Pentagon)

-United Airlines
(Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport
for losing the planes
-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes
(Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes
(Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices
in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers
(Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones.
(Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...
Update:
A common excuse for no one coming out who was part of this so called 9/11 conspiracy is they fear death. If you analyze the argument carefully you realize they are debunking themselves. Why would even people in the military be more fearful of exposing this than the common conspiracy theorists behind a computer monitor? Either they don't believe what they're saying or they actually think they are more fearless than the thousands of others who would have had to be "in on it". As if people in the CIA or FBI couldn't figure out how to get the message out if they wanted to without exposing who they are. People, dates, places, memos and other evidence could easily be disseminated to the public without exposing who they are. The only reason they claim the people are paralyzed with fear is because they have too in order for the conspiracy story to work.
Noam Chomsky on 9/11 Conspiracy theories
Update:
More from Noam Chomsky
"...I am not persuaded by the assumption that much documentation and other evidence has been uncovered. To determine that, we'd have to investigate the alleged evidence. Take, say, the physical evidence. There are ways to assess that: submit it to specialists -- of whom there are thousands -- who have the requisite background in civil-mechanical engineering, materials science, building construction, etc., for review and analysis; and one cannot gain the required knowledge by surfing the internet. In fact, that's been done, by the professional association of civil engineers. Or, take the course pursued by anyone who thinks they have made a genuine discovery: submit it to a serious journal for peer review and publication. To my knowledge, there isn't a single submission."
"I think this reaches the heart of the matter. One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. How do you personally set priorities? That's of course up to you. I've explained my priorities often, in print as well as elsewhere, but we have to make our own judgments."
"...I don't see any reason to accept the presuppositions. As for the consequences, in one of my first interviews after 9/11 I pointed out the obvious: every power system in the world was going to exploit it for its own interests: the Russians in Chechnya, China against the Uighurs, Israel in the occupied territories,... etc., and states would exploit the opportunity to control their own populations more fully through "prevention of terrorism acts" and the like. By the "who gains" argument, every power system in the world could be assigned responsibility for 9/11."
"I think the Bush administration would have had to be utterly insane to try anything like what is alleged, for their own narrow interests, and do not think that serious evidence has been provided to support claims about actions that would not only be outlandish, for their own interests, but that have no remote historical parallel. The effects, however, are all too clear, namely, what I just mentioned: diverting activism and commitment away from the very serious ongoing crimes of state."
http://blog.zmag.org/node/2779 (external - login to view)
 
petros
#197
Oh no! An NPO that sells informational merch to keep operating?

How terrible!

Did you read their questions to the Commisssion? Did you go answer them on their website?
 
Avro
+1
#198
Basement dwelling Mommas boys always have the answers.
 
Stretch
#199
Classified CIA Transcript Counters Bin Laden Terror Role (external - login to view)

posted by [Redacted] on Sunday, July 11, 2010








DOUBT THROWN ON PROOF BIN LADEN A TERRORIST LEADER

By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor Veterans Today
Two weeks ago, CIA Director Leon Panetta told the press the CIA had not been able to positively confirm any specific information on Osama bin Laden since “late 2000.” Interviews with high ranking military and intelligence officials, some at the highest levels, have confirmed that all evidence lends toward Osama bin Laden’s death in December 2001. Yet transcripts of translated audio and video tapes, albeit widely disputed, are continually released by a news agency tied to Israeli intelligence services.
The transcripts of the last proven bin Laden interview, translated by the CIA, are compared to similar translations of a 2007 “broadcast” said to be by Osama bin Laden. Both are excerpted for length but not content. Striking differences between the two “bin Ladens” is obvious. In 2007, in a lengthy admonition, no mention of Israel is made whatsoever, nor of Palestine. In fact, the bin Laden of 2007 seems to be totally oblivious of Israel. We will begin with the CIA document, one that directly disputes claims made by the media for years. We thank the Central Intelligence Agency for making this document available.
un[redacted] news: Classified CIA Transcript Counters Bin Laden Terror Role (external - login to view)
 
Avro
#200
 
Kakato
#201
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

Like I said,they jump from one conspiracy to a new one,like clockwork,now their at the Bin Laden cycle.
20 years from now they will be posting the same old same old.I think it's a conspiracy myself.
 
Stretch
#202
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Like I said,they jump from one conspiracy to a new one,like clockwork,now their at the Bin Laden cycle.
20 years from now they will be posting the same old same old.I think it's a conspiracy myself.

so, from what I can gather kakato, you believe a frail old man with failing kidneys, orchastrated the attacks on the wtc and pentagon via a cell fone from inside a cave.....somewhere?

and that the black boxes were too badly damaged to be of any help(actually, I think the story was they couldnt be found) yet a passport survived the fireball only to float down and be found amongst millions of tons of rubble incriminating obl?

if you're interested, I have a beachfront property for sale


at low tide
Last edited by Stretch; Jul 11th, 2010 at 10:51 PM..
 
Kakato
#203
Quote: Originally Posted by StretchView Post

so, from what I can gather kakato, you believe a frail old man with failing kidneys, orchastrated the attacks on the wtc and pentagon via a cell fone from inside a cave.....somewhere?

if you're interested, I have a beachfront property for sale


at low tide

Where did I say that? Oh,I didnt.

Sorry but everyone who doesnt buy into your crackpot theorys is not a Bush fan and I posted a link to debunking 9/11 that answers every single crackpot theory your handlers feed you so go buy one of their books,you and the other foilers are the ones that keep the money flowing in to their bank accounts and buy them some more caddys for the driveway.
Your so gullible.
 
americanadian
#204
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

Yeah I guess my uncle, aunt, and neighbour were all fake people, and I must be too. Disgusting.
 
Kakato
#205
Quote: Originally Posted by americanadianView Post

Yeah I guess my uncle, aunt, and neighbour were all fake people, and I must be too. Disgusting.

Notice how our main foiler just switched to another theory about black boxes?
I have these guys pegged to a tee,they are so predictable it's funny,like their reading from a script. They just like to flood forums with one BS conspiracy after another to push their agenda and facts be damned.

Wonder what one he's going to post next,maybe the pull it conspiracy,I allways get a laugh out of that one.
 
Avro
+1
#206
We all know it was aliens who caused the twin towers to fall...oh...and the Jews as well.
 
americanadian
#207
Well Kakato, it's good to know at least one person here has common sense. Conspiracy theories in general just amuse me, it's like nothing can just happen in history without the big bad U.S. government being involved. Just because I moved doesn't mean I hate America, I'm very proud to be an American, and I would put money down that the U.S. gov't hides things, but the things they hide are on a much smaller scale than aliens, or plots to kill the president, or kill thousands of people and put your country into a economic downward spiral.

I'd like to know one motive the U.S. government would have for killing its own citizens and damaging three of its iconic buildings.
 
CDNBear
+1
#208
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Do they really or is that conjecture?

Yes, and no it isn't conjecture. The bulk of the meat heads that think that 9/11 was a conspiracy by western powers, also believe Kennedy was assassinated by the CIA and the Mob, that UFO's a re real, and Lizard people live in the San Andrea mountains.

Quote:

Go to 9/11 Truth.org founded by the families of firefigters and cops and post on their site you think the families of firefighters who died on 9-11 and cops are Area 51 believers and JFK believers.

I didn't say everyone Petros. This is simply an attempt to negate a fact, by focusing on a small section of the demographic.

Quote:

How well would that go over?

I have no idea. I don't actually care either. It's an interesting site though. Sadly the bulk of which has been sufficiently debunked countless times. I see they're still touting that nano thermite was found in the dust, even though that has already been shown to be a hoax, perpetrated to show how willing some people are to believe faulty science from sketchy sources. So long as it supports their conspiracy.

I can understand their grief. I truly can. But as Tonnington pointed out, grief can make people do some things that they would otherwise normally not do.



Quote:

EDITORIAL POLICY

We carefully review the articles, books, videos, sites and other resources published and linked on this site. Of the many works about 9/11 now in circulation, we strive to promote the best.
- We urge everyone to fact-check, engage in due diligence, and research issues from all angles. It is important to expose mistakes, and we are happy to correct our own when these occur.
- Some works about 9/11 forward ungrounded claims based on misinterpretations, distortions or even fabricated evidence. Others reveal racist or extremist biases. We avoid both types of distraction by focusing on the most promising lines of inquiry and bodies of evidence; those that have stood up to the scrutiny of peer review, have been subjected to expert analysis, and as a result are winning in the court of public opinion.
- Beyond issues of factual content, we prefer to disengage from individuals who employ vitriol or highly-charged rhetoric. We value positive and sober approaches over heavy-handed ones that might alienate potential allies.

Epic fail. They haven't lived up to that policy.


Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Wrong. I think they are wrong.

Exactly.

Quote: Originally Posted by StretchView Post

so, from what I can gather kakato, you believe a frail old man with failing kidneys, orchastrated the attacks on the wtc and pentagon via a cell fone from inside a cave.....somewhere?

Although he wasn't a frail old man living in a cave at the time, I do like your typical exaggeration.

That said, if he was a frail old man, incapable of doing such a thing, how is it the Bush Administration, an administration that 99% of the conspiracy believers feel couldn't find their own *** with a map, flashlight and the help of a hooker, were able to pull off the single largest mass murder and coverup in the history of the planet?
Last edited by CDNBear; Jul 12th, 2010 at 06:47 AM..
 
petros
#209
Who wants to tackle Question #20?
 
CDNBear
#210
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Who wants to tackle Question #20?

What question is that? There seems to be just 11 unanswered questions there.
 

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