Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

JLM

#331

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Curiosity

JLM

You are probably right - but it isn't as dramatic (lol).... of course I could imagine having a wonderful smooch session with some gorgeous guy and if I caught the flu from him, it would have been ok...

Flu isn't very dramatic is it? I mean if you are gonna get sick, it should be something caught in the jungles of darkest Ethopia or wherever...

When I think back to the terrible bouts of flu I used to suffer through, sometimes laid up for a week, compared to the odd bad cold I''ve suffered since getting the shots there is no doubt in my mind that getting the flu shot is definitely the way to go. Of course the flu shots only cover you for a few months during flu season, so I guess during the summer you are still open to catching anything that's "out there".

Tonington

#332

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Curiosity

I get the "flu shot" every autumn when it is offered.... never had a reaction until this year...

Apparently, this decreases your risk of suffering heart attacks. There's been a known seasonal component in cardiac arrests for years. Some thought the exertion of shoveling snow, or perhaps inactivity during the winter months. Turns out, that a thorough analysis of flu shots and heart attacks turns up an effect. The risk is far lower in groups who regularly get flu shots.

"When the researchers accounted for a range of other factors in heart attack risk -- like high blood pressure, diabetes, smoking and family history of heart disease -- they found that flu vaccination was associated with a 19 percent reduction in the odds of suffering a heart attack over the next year, as compared with no vaccination."

Flu shot linked to reduced heart attack risk | Reuters

And it's not without mechanism either. Inflammation increases plaque production, so less inflammation without influenza means less plaque production.

JLM

#333

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington

Apparently, this decreases your risk of suffering heart attacks. There's been a known seasonal component in cardiac arrests for years. Some thought the exertion of shoveling snow, or perhaps inactivity during the winter months. Turns out, that a thorough analysis of flu shots and heart attacks turns up an effect. The risk is far lower in groups who regularly get flu shots.
"When the researchers accounted for a range of other factors in heart attack risk -- like high blood pressure, diabetes, smoking and family history of heart disease -- they found that flu vaccination was associated with a 19 percent reduction in the odds of suffering a heart attack over the next year, as compared with no vaccination."

Flu shot linked to reduced heart attack risk | Reuters

And it's not without mechanism either. Inflammation increases plaque production, so less inflammation without influenza means less plaque production.

Absolutely. I lost two cousins (brother and sister) in their 50s a month apart from congestive heart failure which was caused (the docs figure) from a flu virus at some point in their lives. They were both dead within 5 years of onset of the condition. This was back in the 80s so not sure if the exact scenario would play out today- probably not.

Tonington

#334

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

This was back in the 80s so not sure if the exact scenario would play out today- probably not.

Oh I think it would. People still die from heart disease, and people still get the flu.

And of course the anti-vaxxers have been quite successful on such shakey grounds. In the future we may see flu rates go up, as well as heart disease...

All of this skepticism for vaccines is unbalanced. There are risks of course, but the risks that these diseases pose to our population are higher still.

JLM

#335

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington

Oh I think it would. People still die from heart disease, and people still get the flu.

And of course the anti-vaxxers have been quite successful on such shakey grounds. In the future we may see flu rates go up, as well as heart disease...

All of this skepticism for vaccines is unbalanced. There are risks of course, but the risks that these diseases pose to our population are higher still.

I just meant that with the tremendous advances in medicine today, their life expectancy may be much longer.

Cliffy

#336

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I just meant that with the tremendous advances in medicine today, their life expectancy may be much longer.

Perhaps, but what about quality of life? Some spend the rest of their lives as Guinea pigs. I have had two heart attacks 14 years ago and congestive heart failure 3 years ago and today I feel like a new person, no operations and am almost off meds. If I told doctors how I did it they would tell me I'm crazy. I won't dispute that but I am none the less healthier than I have been since the early 90s.

JLM

#337

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 20th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Perhaps, but what about quality of life? Some spend the rest of their lives as Guinea pigs. I have had two heart attacks 14 years ago and congestive heart failure 3 years ago and today I feel like a new person, no operations and am almost off meds. If I told doctors how I did it they would tell me I'm crazy. I won't dispute that but I am none the less healthier than I have been since the early 90s.

That's great Cliff, hope your good health continues for a long time. Best sometimes not to question the whys, just run with whatever it is.

Stretch

#338

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Hidden Government Papers Expose Lies About Measles Vaccines for Infants

Tuesday, 21 September 2010 08:29

'British government policy on measles vaccination for children has changed for no discernible reason notes Christina England, writing on vactruth.com, citing an internal document from 1968.
The document, titled "Notes On the Use and Storage of Measles Vaccine (Live Attenuated) for Routine Vaccines," clearly states in Section 7 that the vaccine should not be given to children under the age of nine months old. According to the paper's authors, the presence of maternal antibodies in the blood of such children interferes with the action of the vaccine, making it ineffective. Instead, the government recommended vaccination at the age of two after vaccination for diptheria, polio, tetanus and whooping cough.'
Read more: Hidden Government Papers Expose Lies About Measles Vaccines for Infants

Curiosity

#339

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Cliffy

Congratulations on your continued good health!

I had a lot of illness growing up in Winnipeg because I loved the winter and the snow and was probably getting colds from getting away out of the house without all the gear necessary to protect. Since I live in a warm climate now I can't remember the last cold but it has been years - if the doctors recommend something for me to take (because they feel obligated to suggest something)....I smile get the Rx and put it at the back of the bus. I hate pills and pay attention to my food intake and get adequate sleep.

I firmly believe in a positive outlook has a lot to do with our health but I will admit to playing the diva over the past weekend - the sympathy was wonderful - but I like feeling healthy much better.

karrie

#340

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Absolutely. I lost two cousins (brother and sister) in their 50s a month apart from congestive heart failure which was caused (the docs figure) from a flu virus at some point in their lives. They were both dead within 5 years of onset of the condition. This was back in the 80s so not sure if the exact scenario would play out today- probably not.

I lost an uncle just a couple years ago due to the damage done to his heart by scarlet fever when he was a kid. So yeah, it still happens.

Stretch

#341

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I just meant that with the tremendous advances in medicine today, their life expectancy may be much longer.

you'd expect that, but in reality, if you think about it, there is no intention to prolong our life, only to curtail it is todays vaccination, tomorrows pre existing condition?

TenPenny

#342

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Stretch

you'd expect that, but in reality, if you think about it, there is no intention to prolong our life, only to curtail it

I'd be interested in any evidence to show that health care workers don't want to prolong our lives.

Cliffy

#343

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

I'd be interested in any evidence to show that health care workers don't want to prolong our lives.

I have no doubt that people get into the field to help people, but the system of "health care" is rather limited to allopathic medicine to the exclusion of other methods. It won't be true health care until the field is opened up to natural methods as well.

JLM

#344

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

I have no doubt that people get into the field to help people, but the system of "health care" is rather limited to allopathic medicine to the exclusion of other methods. It won't be true health care until the field is opened up to natural methods as well.

Here's the way I see it Cliff, The natural methods are necessary for maintaining good health, but the allopathic medicine is often very necessary to repairing bad health conditions. Make sense to you Cliff?

gegilso

#345

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Haha, really people? You really think that an organization would spend months in preperation to manufacture a "vaccine to swine flue" but really it's a secret evil plot to destroy mankind? Haha, well if that was, they failed miserably. I am a healthcare professional and I know what goes into certain vaccines. I know this because we screen people for allergies to bee's, egg protiens and other things before we give ANY vaccine. Because a certain percentage of the population will have an adverse reaction. I have recived H1N1 vaccination twice in a 6 month period and had no adverse reactions and they did it to 5000 people in my area and not ONE had negative effect. You are all extrememly unrealistic, uneducated potheads who can't spell worth ****. If they wanted to kill random people they would have, but I guess some people lack common sense to figure that out.

Cliffy

#346

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by gegilso

Haha, really people? You really think that an organization would spend months in preperation to manufacture a "vaccine to swine flue" but really it's a secret evil plot to destroy mankind? Haha, well if that was, they failed miserably. I am a healthcare professional and I know what goes into certain vaccines. I know this because we screen people for allergies to bee's, egg protiens and other things before we give ANY vaccine. Because a certain percentage of the population will have an adverse reaction. I have recived H1N1 vaccination twice in a 6 month period and had no adverse reactions and they did it to 5000 people in my area and not ONE had negative effect. You are all extrememly unrealistic, uneducated potheads who can't spell worth ****. If they wanted to kill random people they would have, but I guess some people lack common sense to figure that out.

That is funny because random people have died. When vaccines are given to large numbers of people, they are not checked for allergies. Those that die were not screened, but I doubt that is a plot, just bad medicine. I think the problem with the Swine flu "pandemic" was the mass hysteria that was built up around it and the billions that were made from the scare and unnecessary inoculation of millions of people. The "pandemic" never happened, not because of the vaccine but because the threat was blown out of proportion.

Tonington

#347

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

The "pandemic" never happened, not because of the vaccine but because the threat was blown out of proportion.

A pandemic is just a widespread epidemic, and an epidemic is just a rise in the number of cases of an emerging uncharacterized disease.

It did happen, and thankfully, it wasn't a bad pandemic. Do you know what the typical time frame is to produce a human biologic pharmaceutical? It's on the order of about 10 years. What happens when another pandemic comes along, and suppose we responded to it like it was nothing out of the ordinary. A few pharmaceuticals start characterizing the antigens, and developing assays for potential immunological expression from selected viral surface proteins. But, imagine it's not this version of the influenza, it's something much more pathogenic. A billion people are dead before any pharmaceutical has even selected an antigen to bring to Phase 1 of clinical trials...

These decisions aren't made lightly. Imagine your job is to protect the health of an entire countries population, or in the WHO case, to be on the look out for the entire world. There's a case to be made for conservative timelines in ordinary development of vaccines for known diseases. You can't be that nonchalant with new diseases...

SineQuaNon

#348

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Human intelligence will rapidly evolve to a higher level if we can find a way to isolate those who chose not to be vaccinated.

Cliffy

#349

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by SineQuaNon

Human intelligence will rapidly evolve to a higher level if we can find a way to isolate those who chose not to be vaccinated.

That is patently absurd. Refusing vaccines has nothing to do with lack of intelligence or human evolution. It is a decision made with the information available to the individual. I have studied holistic health for over 40 years and have my own ways of protecting myself from pathogens that work fine for me. I know many others who do the same. The problem lies with those who do not take responsibility for their personal health and do their own research on the subject. As a society we have given away our responsibility to others for our spiritual, physical and mental health. We expect others to solve our problems and we end up with solutions that are tailored to suit everybody but not everybody is the same as everybody else and sometimes the cure can mean death of those that fall outside the norm.

JLM

#350

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

That is funny because random people have died. When vaccines are given to large numbers of people, they are not checked for allergies. Those that die were not screened, but I doubt that is a plot, just bad medicine. I think the problem with the Swine flu "pandemic" was the mass hysteria that was built up around it and the billions that were made from the scare and unnecessary inoculation of millions of people. The "pandemic" never happened, not because of the vaccine but because the threat was blown out of proportion.

For some reason a disproportionate number in Mexico did die when the flu was first announced, I remember seeing it on the news & it did seem very grim so I can understand the panic.

Cliffy

#351

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

For some reason a disproportionate number in Mexico did die when the flu was first announced, I remember seeing it on the news & it did seem very grim so I can understand the panic.

I guess that is why I didn't panic. I didn't watch the news. The news tends to over dramatize stuff for the express purpose of creating panics and selling advertising. Shoot your TV and you may never get sick again.

JLM

#352

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

I guess that is why I didn't panic. I didn't watch the news. The news tends to over dramatize stuff for the express purpose of creating panics and selling advertising. Shoot your TV and you may never get sick again.

Very true Cliff. My theory is that of those who died most of them also had some other disease like emphysema, cancer of the liver and AIDs- the flu just put the finishing touches on something that was going to happen anyway.

Tonington

#353

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 21st, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Very true Cliff. My theory is that of those who died most of them also had some other disease like emphysema, cancer of the liver and AIDs- the flu just put the finishing touches on something that was going to happen anyway.

Actually even the television got this part right...the victims of this strain of pandemic H1N1 were predominantly healthy, with no underlying conditions, and a demographic that had not previously been exposed to similar viral proteins, hence a lack of protection.

A study out this week in the Annals of Neurology links the pandemic H1N1 flu to neurological disorders in children. They examined children infected with the seasonal flu, and compared those to children infected with the pandemic H1N1 flu. The results showed severe swelling of the brain in the pandemic cases. Epilepsy was found to be caused by both flu types in specific conditions.

Stretch

#354

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 23rd, 2010

i'm sure its nothing t worry about, its just a coincedence......................

Polysorbate 80 In Swine Flu Vaccines = Infertility In Humans

Thursday, 23 September 2010 08:54

'Would you feel comfortable being injected with a vaccine that contains a substance that has been strongly linked to infertility? Well, if you take the Fluarix swine flu vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline or any of the other swine flu vaccines that contain Polysorbate 80 that is exactly what you will be doing. If you are considering getting the swine flu vaccine, or any other vaccine for that matter, perhaps you should educate yourself about EXACTLY what is in these vaccines before you allow them to be injected into your body.
Perhaps you think that linking the swine flu vaccine with infertility is quite a stretch. Well, let's take this one step at a time.'
Read more: Polysorbate 80 In Swine Flu Vaccines = Infertility In Humans

I refer you back to the global 2000 report to the president, a blueprint for genocide.

Skatchie

#355

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 24th, 2010

I'm in agreement with the OP. Vaccine's are not all entirely safe. It's not even just the individual vaccines either. The vaccine schedules also present a big problem. In conjunction with each other, they cause more problems. Nobody can deny that Autism is 10 times more common now than only a generation or two ago. It's not alone either. Something is causing this. We're absolutely stupid to rule out vaccines.

Dexter Sinister

#356

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 24th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Skatchie

We're absolutely stupid to rule out vaccines.

Except that carefully controlled studies HAVE ruled out vaccines as a cause for autism. What's stupid is clinging to an idea that's been proven false.

Skatchie

#357

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 24th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Except that carefully controlled studies HAVE ruled out vaccines as a cause for autism. What's stupid is clinging to an idea that's been proven false.

Nope. What's stupid is believing studies done by the pharmaceutical industry about anything because they a financial rooting interest in the results. They have been proven to be giving us crap information for years. Science can "prove" anything. It can prove that if you tie an Elephant's tail to a dandelion that it will restrain it's movement. Why do you think vaccines are pulled off the shelves every year or two? They didn't have studies before they were put on the market?

Bcool

#358

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 24th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Skatchie

Nope. What's stupid is believing studies done by the pharmaceutical industry about anything because they a financial rooting interest in the results. They have been proven to be giving us crap information for years. Science can "prove" anything. It can prove that if you tie an Elephant's tail to a dandelion that it will restrain it's movement. Why do you think vaccines are pulled off the shelves every year or two? They didn't have studies before they were put on the market?

:::huge sigh::: I know it must be sooo easy to become a Flat Earther living where you do, but.... Vaccines are pulled 'off shelves' because: 1. They expire; go past their "best by..." date; the flu season for that particular vaccine has been and gone; which leads us to: 2. Every vaccine is designed to meet a particular flu type and its mutations; a vaccine that prevented someone vaccinated with it last year from becoming infected with Canolaoiditis Virus 666 will not prevent someone vaccinated with it this year from becoming infected with this year's Rapeseedanoily Virus 666 flu outbreak. That help?

" Science can "prove" anything. It can prove that if you tie an Elephant's tail to a dandelion that it will restrain it's movement." Sounds fascinating, where do I find this scientific study? URL or name of researchers or institute please? TIA

Dexter Sinister

#359

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 24th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Skatchie

Science can "prove" anything.

No it can't, and doesn't try to. Evidently your understanding of what science is and how it works is about as limited as your understanding of 911. It wasn't the pharmaceutical industry that did the studies proving no link between vaccines and autism.

Bcool

#360

Re: Flu is not the biggest danger ...... It's the vaccine

Sep 24th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Stretch

i'm sure its nothing t worry about, its just a coincedence...................... . . . . Perhaps you think that linking the swine flu vaccine with infertility is quite a stretch. Well, let's take this one step at a time.'
Read more: Polysorbate 80 In Swine Flu Vaccines = Infertility In Humans

I refer you back to the global 2000 report to the president, a blueprint for genocide.

Just wait till the pope hears about this! Whoa Nelly!! Going to be edicts banning swine flu vaccinations positively hurtling in the millions from Vatican City!

OTOH gonna be a whole lot more teenagers getting vaccinated.

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