Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Does the rain come down from the cloud?

eanassir

#1Apr 22nd, 2008

Does the rain come down from the cloud?

The rain comes down from the sky, not from the cloud.

But the hot wind and the cloud will lead to the falling down of the rain.

The origin of the rain is from the water vapor;

because sun-rays fall down on the earth, so that the water of seas and rivers evaporates by the sun heat;

the vapor goes up in the sky, and the vapor particles convert into water particles because of the coldness of the atmosphere in the high altitudes,

and with the continuation of the influence of the coldness on these particles, they change into snow particles which remain scattered in the sky,

then when some of the water vapor again goes up in the sky, and a hot wind comes to drive it under these snow particles scattered in the sky,

then the heat of the wind and the vapor will melt away that snow, so it will fall down as rain.

God - be exalted – said in the Quran, 30: 48

اللهُ الّذي يُرْسِلُ الرِّياحَ فَتُثِيرُ سَحاباً فَيَبْسُطُهُ في السّماءِ كَيْفَ يَشاءُ و يَجْعَلُهُ كِسَفاً فَتَرَى الوَدْقَ يَخْرُجُ مِنْ خِلالِهِ

The explanation: (God is He Who looses the winds, and they stir up [and collect] clouds, which He spreads in the sky as He pleases, and makes them as [many] fragments, and you [man] see the [nearby and large] rain drops issue out of the midst of the [clouds] …etc.)

The الوَدْقَ is the rain, which is nearby to the ground.
So, God -be exalted – explained that the rain comes down from among or through the clouds; and it is not the cloud itself that comes down as rain; that is because the hot wind and the cloud will melt away some of the snow particles scattered high in the sky, so that they will fall down as rain, from among the cloud.

God - be exalted - said also in the Quran, 24: 34

أَ لَمْ تَرَ أنّ اللهَ يُزْجي سَحاباً ثُمَّ يُؤَلِّفُ بَيْنَهُ ثُمَّ يَجْعَلُهُ رُكاماً فَتَرَى الوَدْقَ يَخْرُجُ مِنْ خِلالِهِ

The explanation: (Have you not seen how God drives the clouds, then composes them, then converts them into a heaped mass, then you see the rain issuing out of the midst of them?)

The role of the wind:

The wind stirs the seas and rivers to evaporate the water, then the water vapor will rise up, then condenses, then water droplets will form, then snow crystals will form, which will stay scattered in the sky.
The wind drives the cloud, and moves it.

God -be exalted – said in the Quran, 35: 9

و اللهُ الّذي أرْسَلَ الرِّياحَ فَتُثِيرُ سَحاباً فَسُقْناهُ إلى بَلَدٍ مَيِّتٍ فَأَحْيَيْنا بِهِ الأرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِها

The explanation: (God is He Who looses the winds, and they stir up [and collect] clouds, which We drive to a desolate [: dead] land, and thereby quicken the land, after it is desolate [: dead] …)

The wind fertilizes [and impregnates] the cloud, by means of the condensation nuclei [because of the dust and smoke particles that the wind carries], and leads to formation of the cloud.

--

This is in the Quran 15: 22

وَأَرْسَلْنَا الرِّيَاحَ لَوَاقِحَ فَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء

The explanation: (And We send forth the 'impregnating' winds, and We send down water from the sky)

The interpretation: the wind impregnates or fertilizes the trees; and the wind impregnates the cloud; because the wind carries some dust and smoke particles and when these collides with the snow particles scattered in the atmosphere, this will lead to warming of these snow particles causing the rain formation. [In addition, these particles will act as nuclei around which some water droplets will collect.]

Then when a hot wind and a new cloud come under the scattered snow; it will melt that scattered snow leading to the falling down of the rain.

The wind heralds the coming rain.

A cold front is the transition zone where a cold air mass is replacing the warmer air mass. The cold air is following the warm air, and is gradually moving underneath the warmer air. As the warm air is pushed upwards it will bear the cloud over it. Often the rain will fall in a few minutes as the cold front passes. As the cold front passes, the clouds roll by and you may notice that the air temperature is cooler.

This kind of cold air just before the rain is "a bearer of glad tidings of the coming rain", i.e. such cold moist slow moving air will herald the coming rain; so that many of the people will then anticipate the imminent coming of the rain.
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God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 7: 57

و هُوَ الّذي يُرْسِلُ الرِّياحَ بُشْرىً بَيْنَ يَدَيْ رَحْمَتِهِ حَتَّى إذا أَقَلَّتْ سَحاباً ثِقالاً سُقْناهُ لِبَلَدٍ مَيِّتٍ فَأنْزَلْنا بِهِ الماءَ فَأَخْرَجْنا بِهِ مِنْ كُلِّ الثّمَراتِ ...الخ

The explanation: (It is He Who looses the winds bearing good-tidings before [,or heralding, the rain which is] His mercy; till, when they are charged with the heavy cloud [they bear the cloud above them], We drive it to a dead land, and therewith send down [, from the sky, rain] water, and bring forth therewith all the fruits …etc.)

--

eanassir
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Dexter Sinister

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 22nd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

Does the rain come down from the cloud?

The rain comes down from the sky, not from the cloud.

Still promoting your unique brand of religious foolishness I see. Has it escaped your notice that it doesn't rain when there are no clouds in the sky? Have you never seen rain coming out of the bottom of a cloud? Never seen a thunderstorm? You'd deny the evidence right in front of you in favour of some silly explanation from a 1400-year old religious text, and call it science. You remain hopelessly and deliberately ignorant.

eanassir

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 22nd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Still promoting your unique brand of religious foolishness I see. Has it escaped your notice that it doesn't rain when there are no clouds in the sky? Have you never seen rain coming out of the bottom of a cloud? Never seen a thunderstorm? You'd deny the evidence right in front of you in favour of some silly explanation from a 1400-year old religious text, and call it science. You remain hopelessly and deliberately ignorant.

For the sake of the Glorious Quran, I shall not answer your words of transgression on me, but the following is essential to explain the subject:

The mechanism of the rain precipitation is not that easy.
The cloud is essential for the raining.
The rain as in the many Quranic revelations comes from the midst or from through the cloud. Refer to some of the Quranic revelations in the original post.
When I made search in the Quran, I found: a large number of ayat or revelations say, like 13: 17

أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
[there is a large number of ayat in this form of expression]
The explanation: ([God] has sent down [rain] water from the sky)

or 15: 22
فَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
[there are many ayat in this form of expression]
The explanation: (We send down water from the sky), but He did not say: We send down the rain from the cloud.

With the exception of two mysterious or ambiguous ayat, in which He did not say the rain comes from the cloud, but used other expressions, indicating the water cycle and the drinking water and the relation of the stormy winds and the difference of pressure may be.

But why is that? Because if you ask the Arab and the non-Arab, the child and the old man, he will say: the rain comes down from the cloud.

The snow scattered in the atmosphere, especially in the high altitudes; and when the cloud and the hot wind comes under that snow, it will melt it and will come down through the cloud causing more water to coalesce and rain will fall.

You can refer to A. J. Arberry: The Koran Interpreted (although it is much defective)
--
(you can download it here easily)

eanassir
--

Dexter Sinister

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 22nd, 2008

You're beating a dead horse. The Quran is not a science text and you're foolish to take it as such.

eanassir

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 22nd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

The Quran is not a science text

The wind heralds the coming rain:

A cold front is the transition zone where a cold air mass is replacing the warmer air mass. The cold air is following the warm air, and is gradually moving underneath the warmer air. As the warm air is pushed upwards it will bear the cloud over it. Often the rain will fall in a few minutes as the cold front passes. As the cold front passes, the clouds go up and you may notice that the air temperature is cooler.

This kind of "cold moist air slowly moving" felt just before the rain is "a bearer of glad tidings of the coming rain", i.e. such cold moist slow moving air will herald the coming rain; so that many of the people will then anticipate the imminent coming of the rain.
--

God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 7: 57

--

eanassir
--

Dexter Sinister

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Your horse is still dead.

Lester

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

I thought I heard it all when he was going on about Sunspots-at least I get a good chuckle from his nonsense.

eanassir

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Lester

I thought I heard it all when he was going on about Sunspots-at least I get a good chuckle from his nonsense.

Convectional rainfall is most commonly found in places with warmer climates.

The ground or water in lakes or seas is warmed by the sun, throughout the day.
The air above the land becomes heated.
This makes the air less dense, so it rises.
As the air rises it cools.
Cool air can not hold as much water vapour as warmer air, when the air becomes too cold for the amount of water it holds condensation occurs.
These drops of condensation form into clouds, gradually becoming tall thunderstorm clouds, called cumulonimbus; which will melt some of the snow scattered in the atmosphere above them, and this in turn will cause the coalescence of water drops in the cloud, and may thus cause the precipitation of a huge downpour.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 13: 12-13

هُوَ الَّذِي يُرِيكُمُ الْبَرْقَ خَوْفًا وَطَمَعًا وَيُنْشِئُ السَّحَابَ الثِّقَالَ . وَيُسَبِّحُ الرَّعْدُ بِحَمْدِهِ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ مِنْ خِيفَتِهِ وَيُرْسِلُ الصَّوَاعِقَ فَيُصِيبُ بِهَا مَن يَشَاء وَهُمْ يُجَادِلُونَ فِي اللّهِ وَهُوَ شَدِيدُ الْمِحَالِ

The explanation: (It is He Who shows you the lightning, for fear and hope, and produces the heavy clouds.
The [sound of the] thunder celebrates His praise as do angels, for fear of Him. He sends the thunderbolt to smite therewith whom He will;
yet they dispute about God, the while He is Mighty in interference. [He interferes between the disbeliever and his mind, so that such a disbeliever will work against his own advantage, then later on will start to blame himself.] )
So God – be glorified – explained here that the cloud that is heavy with water is liable, more than others, to produce the lightning, the thunder and thunderbolts.
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eanassir
--

eanassir

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Your horse is still dead.

The water (or hydrologic) cycle:
1. The sweet drinking water (of rivers, springs and wells) is originally from the rain water.

This is in the Glorious Quran 56: 68-69

أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ الْمَاء الَّذِي تَشْرَبُونَ . أَأَنتُمْ أَنزَلْتُمُوهُ مِنَ الْمُزْنِ أَمْ نَحْنُ الْمُنزِلُونَ

The explanation: (Will you [people] consider the water which you drink?
Do you [yourselves] send it down from the clouds, or is it We Who send it down?)

2. The water will be stored under the ground.
This is in the Quran 15: 22

وَأَرْسَلْنَا الرِّيَاحَ لَوَاقِحَ فَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَأَسْقَيْنَاكُمُوهُ وَمَا أَنتُمْ لَهُ بِخَازِنِينَ

وَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء بِقَدَرٍ فَأَسْكَنَّاهُ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَإِنَّا عَلَى ذَهَابٍ بِهِ لَقَادِرُونَ

The explanation: (And We send from the sky [rain] water according to measure, and We preserve it in the earth, although We are Most Able to remove it [completely.] )

It means: God made the water to settle on earth in the form of ice and snow on mountains and in the polar regions, and as liquid water in rivers, lakes, seas and oceans; in addition to lodging it under the earth surface as the under-ground water.

Moreover, if He will He can make the water vaporize, to fall only in the polar regions, when you then will lose all the sweet water.

3. The water may find an escape to the surface of the earth, and comes out as a water-spring.
God – be exalted – said in the Quran 39: 21

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَسَلَكَهُ يَنَابِيعَ فِي الْأَرْضِ ثُمَّ يُخْرِجُ بِهِ زَرْعًا ...الخ

The explanation: (Have you not seen that God has sent down [rain] water from the sky, and has caused it to pass through the earth [then to come out] as water-springs, and afterwards produces thereby plant, …etc.)

It means: He caused water to percolate through the earth, and made from it the water-springs.

--

eanassir
--

shadowshiv

#10

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Your horse is still dead.

I believe this may be the smilie you're looking for, Dexter.

eanassir

#11

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Lester

I thought I heard it all when he was going on about Sunspots-at least I get a good chuckle from his nonsense.

This may also be about such cumulonimbus cloud:

God said in the Quran 2: 19

أَوْ كَصَيِّبٍ مِّنَ السَّمَاء فِيهِ ظُلُمَاتٌ وَرَعْدٌ وَبَرْقٌ يَجْعَلُونَ أَصْابِعَهُمْ فِي آذَانِهِم مِّنَ الصَّوَاعِقِ حَذَرَ الْمَوْتِ واللّهُ مُحِيطٌ بِالْكافِرِينَ

The explanation: (Or [their likeness is] like [the folk of] a cloud, laden with heavy rain from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder and lightning; they thrust their fingers in their ears because of thunder-claps, for fear of death; and, surely, God ever has the infidels in His grasp.)

So this kind of cloud fulfills the features of the cumulonimbus cloud: dark, heavy with much rain water, and includes much of the lightning and thunder with some thunder-claps or thunder-bolts.

This Quranic revelation speaks about the storms, rain, lightning, thunder and thunder-bolts; God sent all that against Pharaoh and his host to impede their pursuing after Prophet Moses and his people, until He brought them to the Red Sea at sun-rise time; God saved Moses and his people and drowned Pharaoh and his host.

You can refer A. J. Arberry: The Koran Interpreted (although it is much defective)
--
(you can download it here easily)

eanassir
--

eanassir

#12

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshiv

I believe this may be the smilie you're looking for, Dexter.;-)

The cloud and hot wind is essential for the rain fall; that is to melt the snow particles scattered in the high atmosphere.

If no such hot wind and cloud is present [like in some cold countries like Canada and Russia specially in winter time], the rain will not fall down, but then the snow may fall down.

This is also the reason why the rain is more in spring time rather than in winter time in many countries; because the hot wind will be more prevalent in spring.
--

To check the meaning of these Quranic revelations, see also

A. J. Arberry: The Koran Interpreted (although this translation is much defective)
--
(you can download it here easily)

eanassir
--

Last edited by eanassir; Apr 23rd, 2008 at 08:17 AM..

Lester

#13

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Eanassir, - we know how rainfall happens and it's got nothing to do with your god, you are a foolish man- don't reply with a stupid quote from the quran or some other idiotic text from a thousand years ago. We are unbeleivers because it's too ridiculous to beleive.
Infidel to the end!!!
"2. The water will be stored under the ground.
This is in the Quran 15: 22

The explanation: (And We send forth the 'impregnating' winds, and We send down water from the sky, and We give it to you to drink, nor is it you [people] who store it up [but it is We Who store it up under the ground.] )"No i'm sorry but you are wrong again- Your god does not store water for me. furthermore he/she/it does not have anything to do with it because he/she/it does not exist- quit wasting your life on this crap.

eanassir

#14

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Lester

we know how rainfall happens

Torrents and what they drift

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 13: 17

أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَسَالَتْ أَوْدِيَةٌ بِقَدَرِهَا فَاحْتَمَلَ السَّيْلُ زَبَدًا رَّابِيًا وَمِمَّا يُوقِدُونَ عَلَيْهِ فِي النَّارِ ابْتِغَاء حِلْيَةٍ أَوْ مَتَاعٍ زَبَدٌ مِّثْلُهُ كَذَلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللّهُ الْحَقَّ وَالْبَاطِلَ فَأَمَّا الزَّبَدُ فَيَذْهَبُ جُفَاء وَأَمَّا مَا يَنفَعُ النَّاسَ فَيَمْكُثُ فِي الأَرْضِ كَذَلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللّهُ الأَمْثَالَ

The explanation:
(He sends down – from the sky – water,
so that the valleys flow [with water] according to their measure,
so the torrent drifts [with it] multiplying "zabad"[:"drifted substances"],
and [it drifts also] some of what they heat with fire seeking the ornament
or [for their advantage and] use – that being "zabad"[:"drifted substances"] like it .

As such God gives the parable for the true and the false: As for the "zabad"; it will go away, whereas that which benefits people: it will remain on earth. As such God gives parables.)

The interpretation:
>> (He sends down – from the sky – water) it is the rain: He sends it on mountains,
>> (so that the valleys flow [with water] according to their measure) i.e. the water flows from the mountains to the valleys according to the extent of the mountains,
>> (so the torrent drifts [with it]) the substances drifted are heavy and do not flow on the water surface, but they will be drifted by the torrent.
>> (multiplying "zabad"[:"drifted substances"]) these are the shells, mussels, calcium sulfate, calcium carbonate, the golden iron sulfide [: the cubanite] --
, and other substances which form and multiply in the earth from the combining of two elements; the torrent drifts also some of the colored stones and precious stones like the garnet and the turquoise and others.
>> (and [it drifts also] some of what they heat with fire seeking the ornament) which is the silver sulfide
--
; the ornaments are like the armlets, the bracelets, the anklets, the earrings, the finger rings and others.
People in the past knew only this way of the extraction of the silver from its ore: they dig a pit in the ground and put in it the silver sulfide*, then they kindle fire on it, so the sulfur will go away after changing into sulfur dioxide, and the silver remains in the pit, so they take it and make of it the ornaments.
>> (or [for their advantage and] use) they kindle fire
>> (that being "zabad"[:"drifted substances"] like it), which are the calcium sulfate and the calcium carbonate which they heat it with fire, it will convert into calcium oxide; therefore: the calcium carbonate will be used in building, the calcium sulfate will be used as gypsum plaster in hospitals for supporting bone fractures and for other uses, while the calcium oxide will be used for synthesis of sodium hydroxide and the bleaching powder (chlorine) and for other advantages.
All these for some advantages of man and it has many benefits.
In addition, among that which they heat in the fire is the Kaolin which is the white mud of which the porcelain plates and dishes are made.

>> (As such God gives the parable for the true and the false) the "true" is the Islam religion and the false is the religion of associaters [who ascribe associates or equals, sons or daughters to God]
>> (As for the "zabad") which the sulfur dioxide
>> (it will go away) with the wind by heating; it is an irritating gas, poisonous and has a bad smell, cause suffocation to any that inhales it, and it causes coughing, and it is fatal in large amounts; while the silver will remain pure and bright attracting the sight having value and many benefits.

This is a parable which God said about the religion of associaters; it is like the sulfur dioxide which is poisonous to the one that inhales it, and has a bad smell; but it will disappear quickly by heating leaving the silver, and will go the way of winds.
And He likened the Islam religion to the silver that is pure of all impurities, which is firm on earth, and which is used for ornamentation.

The meaning: the religion of the pagan Arab will disappear, as does the sulfur dioxide disappear leaving the silver pure.
While the Islam religion will remain on earth firm, just as how the silver remained, and the Islam religion has many advantages to anyone who embraces it.
>> (As such) i.e. as has God given such a parable,
(God gives parables) to people; that they may discern the way of the truth.
---------------------------------------------------------------
*[it is found in the nature like the pebbles, but it is lighter in weight than the pebble; its color is bright grey to black. The interpreter said he saw some of it in the mountains of Iran between Tehran and Khorasan.]

eanassir
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Lester

#15

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

No ,it has nothing to do with any deity ,you are wrong. the only reason your people are as advanced as they are is because of the West if it weren't for the West you would be driving more ox carts than you do now.

eanassir

#16

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Lester

No ,it has nothing to do with any deity ,you are wrong. the only reason your people are as advanced as they are is because of the West if it weren't for the West you would be driving more ox carts than you do now.

Pharaoh also was an atheist; he said as in the Quran 28: 38

وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يَا أَيُّهَا الْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُم مِّنْ إِلَهٍ غَيْرِي فَأَوْقِدْ لِي يَا هَامَانُ عَلَى الطِّينِ فَاجْعَل لِّي صَرْحًا لَّعَلِّي أَطَّلِعُ إِلَى إِلَهِ مُوسَى وَإِنِّي لَأَظُنُّهُ مِنَ الْكَاذِبِينَ

The explanation: (And Pharaoh said: "O chiefs, I know not that you have any god [in the earth] other than me, so kindle for me [a fire], O Haman, to bake the mud; and construct for me a lofty tower in order that I may survey [the god of heaven:] the god of Moses; and even I believe that [Moses] is a liar.")

But when he was drowned in the sea, he believed; as in the Quran 10: 90

حَتَّى إِذَا أَدْرَكَهُ الْغَرَقُ قَالَ آمَنتُ أَنَّهُ لا إِلِهَ إِلاَّ الَّذِي آمَنَتْ بِهِ بَنُو إِسْرَائِيلَ وَأَنَاْ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

The explanation: (and when the drowning overtook him, [ Pharaoh] said: "I have [now] believed that there is no god but the One in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am one of those who resign [to God's command.]")

But his belief was not accepted.

eanassir
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karrie

#17

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

He spoke as he was drowning? And people heard him? Over the screams and splashing of others dying? Brilliant.

So eanassir, can you respond without quran quotes?

eanassir

#18

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 23rd, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

He spoke as he was drowning? And people heard him? Over the screams and splashing of others dying? Brilliant.

The All-Hearing heard him, and He told us about that; then He said refuting him, as in the Quran 10: 91-92

آلآنَ وَقَدْ عَصَيْتَ قَبْلُ وَكُنتَ مِنَ الْمُفْسِدِينَ . فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ آيَةً وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ آيَاتِنَا لَغَافِلُون

The explanation: ([God said:] Now [have you believed?] And, before, you did rebel, being of those doing corruption [on earth.]

But today We shall save you with your [huge fat] corpse, that you may be an indicative sign [of Our truthfulness] to those [coming] after you. But much many of mankind are heedless of Our signs.)

eanassir
--

Dexter Sinister

#19

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

For the sake of the Glorious Quran, I shall not answer your words of transgression on me...

Well, isn't that nice of you. Claiming the moral high ground, are you? The Quran's just a book, it has no feelings, so it doesn't make any sense to me to do something for the sake of it. You may think you're on the moral high ground, but you're certainly on the intellectual low ground. My transgression on you, whatever you think that is, is pretty insignificant compared to your transgressions on knowledge, logic, and evidence. Religious belief is not a useful guide to science's view of reality, and as long as you keep posting your religious beliefs as science, I'll keep hammering on you for your ignorance. You have not yet presented any evidence in any of your threads that you have any comprehension of what you're talking about.

Lester

#20

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

Pharaoh also was an atheist; he said as in the Quran 28: 38
وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يَا أَيُّهَا الْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُم مِّنْ إِلَهٍ غَيْرِي فَأَوْقِدْ لِي يَا هَامَانُ عَلَى الطِّينِ فَاجْعَل لِّي صَرْحًا لَّعَلِّي أَطَّلِعُ إِلَى إِلَهِ مُوسَى وَإِنِّي لَأَظُنُّهُ مِنَ الْكَاذِبِينَ
The explanation: (And Pharaoh said: "O chiefs, I know not that you have any god [in the earth] other than me, so kindle for me [a fire], O Haman, to bake the mud; and construct for me a lofty tower in order that I may survey [the god of heaven:] the god of Moses; and even I believe that [Moses] is a liar.")
But when he was drowned in the sea, he believed; as in the Quran 10: 90
حَتَّى إِذَا أَدْرَكَهُ الْغَرَقُ قَالَ آمَنتُ أَنَّهُ لا إِلِهَ إِلاَّ الَّذِي آمَنَتْ بِهِ بَنُو إِسْرَائِيلَ وَأَنَاْ مِنَ...
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

I didn't say I was an atheist- I just don't beleive your'e bullsh*t

eanassir

#21

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Well, isn't that nice of you. Claiming the moral high ground, are you?

Small frogs came down with the rain

Two years ago I and many others noticed the falling down of small frogs in large numbers, which filled the streets, lanes, gardens and roofs of houses in our large city.

Each of those frogs was about 2 cm., not more. All of them were of the same size, and they started jumping here and there to disappear in the cracks, holes and under the trees. Most of them disappeared (almost died), but very few may have survived in some house gardens and become larger. Their falling occurred at spring time when the wheather started to be warmer; and it was the time of the usaul storms.

This is at our link:
--

" Question: If the rain is originally from vapor, then what are these frogs and minute fishes that, sometimes, fall down together with the rain?
Answer: These animals fall down with the rain; because the wind carries these animals, and they stay hanging in the clouds, and when the rain comes down, they also come down with it."

eanassir
--

Last edited by eanassir; Apr 24th, 2008 at 09:48 AM..

Lester

#22

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

It could be because of a waterspout( they are like tornados that form over water)I found this on wikipedia- A scientific explanation for the phenomenon has been developed that involves --. In effect, waterspouts are capable of capturing objects and animals and lifting them into the air. Under this theory, waterspouts or --, transport animals to relatively high altitudes, carrying them over large distances. The winds are capable of carrying the animals over a relatively wide area and allow them to fall in a concentrated fashion in a localized area.-- More specifically, some tornados can completely suck up a pond, letting the water and animals fall some distance away in the form of a rain of animals.--
This hypothesis appears supported by the type of animals in these rains: small and light, usually aquatic.--. It is also supported by the fact that the rain of animals is often preceded by a storm.

Lester

eanassir

#23

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Lester

It could be because of a waterspout( they are like tornados that form over water)I found this on wikipedia- A scientific explanation for the phenomenon has been developed that involves waterspouts. In effect, waterspouts are capable of capturing objects and animals and lifting them into the air. Under this theory, waterspouts or tornados, transport animals to relatively high altitudes, carrying them over large distances. The winds are capable of carrying the animals over a relatively wide area and allow them to fall in a concentrated fashion in a localized area.[3] More specifically, some tornados can completely suck up a pond, letting the water and animals fall some distance away in the form of a rain of animals.[4]
This hypothesis appears supported by the type of animals in these rains: small and light, usually aquatic.[5]. It is also supported by the fact that the rain of animals is often preceded by a storm.
Lester
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

This confirms what the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible said in the 1986 Arabic edition of his book which is at our website --
(Although the man did not graduate at any school.)

He said: "These animals fall down with the rain; because the wind carries these animals, and they stay hanging in the clouds, and when the rain comes down, they also come down with it."

And actually he said "the storms (or tornadoes) carry such animals"; I mistakenly translated it "the wind."

But the strange thing is:
The very large number of those frogs that covered a very large area at the same time, and the equal size of all of them; what could be the explanation of such a thing?

eanassir

eanassir

#24

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

The Hailstone

Hailstones are formed
1. from the snow scattered high in the sky,
2. from the snow accumulated on the high mountains in cold countries; that is when a stormy wind passes on these mountains, it carries – by its way – some of such snow to some other places. Then, by passing in the atmosphere, these snows will be rolled down to be in the form of small white balls, which will fall down together with the rain, and destroy the plant wherever they may fall.
This is indicated by the fact that we see the falling of the hailstone is in the Spring, when the air becomes somewhat hot; because the hot wind melts out some of this snow, and lift the other non-molten snow, which - by passing again in the atmosphere – will freeze once again, and will roll down in the form of small white ice balls, which are the hailstone.
If you break one of those ice balls and examine it carefully, you will see:
· Some of these hailstones are transparent: these are molten out of the snow on its contact with the hot wind, then they have frozen.
· The other hailstones are white and non- transparent: such are carried by the wind as they are and have not molten.

God - be exalted – said in the Quran, 24: 43

)و يُنَزِّلُ مِنَ السّماءِ مِنْ جِبالٍ فِيها مِنْ بَرَدٍ فَيُصِيبُ بِهِ مَنْ يَشاءُ و يَصْرِفُهُ عَن مَّنْ يَشاءُيَكادُ سَنا بَرْقِهِ يَذْهَبُ بِالأبْصارِ )

The explanation: (And He sends down – from the sky: from mountains therein – hail, so that He smites whom He will with it, and averts it from whom He will, well-nigh the flashing of its lightening snatches away the sight.)

The interpretation:
>> (And He sends down – from the sky) i.e. And He sends down the hailstone from the air [ which is the lower part of the atmosphere]

>> (from mountains therein –) i.e. in the sky of the Earth; they are mountains of clouds and snow. If you travel by airplane you will see many mountains spread in the space: they are only cloud mountains,

>> ( [some] hail) i.e. a little amount of hail is formed from these cloud mountains,

>> ( so that He smites whom He will) to destroy his plants [: crops and fruit] ( with it),

>> (and averts it from whom He will) to let his plants survive.

>>(well-nigh the flashing of its lightening) i.e. the lightening of the cloud; they are positive and negative electrical charges, from which the electrical sparks are formed which makes light at night,

>> (snatches away the sight); because of its extreme light and brightness in the darkness of night.

Large hailstones destroy the plants [: the crops and fruits] and kill the cattle and man, and, in fact, they harmed a large number of people.

The following incidents are some examples of that:

"The hailstones fell on the Nassiriah city in the south of Iraq, at about 7.50 am of the day of the blessed Feast of Breaking the Ramadan Fast [Barum Feast.]
Each piece was, as large as a brick, weighed 160 g. Its falling down lasted 20 minutes. It pored and pierced the ceilings and made them like a sieve. Many were injured when these hailstones fell down upon them, for which they were admitted to hospital."

--

eanassir
--

Dexter Sinister

#25

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

Hailstones are formed from water drops being repeatedly cycled up, where they freeze, and down by the updrafts and downdrafts inside storm cells, until they get too heavy for the updrafts to lift and fall out the bottom of the cloud.

A 160 gram hailstone would not be the size of a brick, it'd be slightly larger than the same mass of water. It'd be approximately spherical and a little more than 5 centimeters in diameter, about the size of a small orange. Pretty big for a hailstone, but nowhere near the size of a brick.

shadowshiv

#26

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 24th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

The All-Hearing heard him, and He told us about that; then He said refuting him, as in the Quran 10: 91-92
آلآنَ وَقَدْ عَصَيْتَ قَبْلُ وَكُنتَ مِنَ الْمُفْسِدِينَ . فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ آيَةً وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ آيَاتِنَا لَغَافِلُون
The explanation: ([God said:] Now [have you believed?] And, before, you did rebel, being of those doing corruption [on earth.]
But today We shall save you with your [huge fat] corpse, that you may be an indicative sign [of Our truthfulness] to those [coming] after you. But much many of mankind are heedless of Our signs.)
eanassir
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

I guess that answers your question, Karrie.

Lester

#27

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 25th, 2008

Eanassir: Why must you always quote the quran? Can you not think for yourself- the quran is an old text that was written when people were in ignorance of the true nature of things. I do not care what the quran says, nor do I imagine that many members of this site do either.

I do not wish to be converted to Islam, Christianity or anything else- If there is a God then i'm not going to pisss him off by nagging him with prayers about my petty problems.

So , if you want to have a discussion - leave religon out of it.

eanassir

#28

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 25th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Hailstones are formed from water drops being repeatedly cycled up, where they freeze, and down by the updrafts and downdrafts inside storm cells, until they get too heavy for the updrafts to lift and fall out the bottom of the cloud.

A 160 gram hailstone would not be the size of a brick, it'd be slightly larger than the same mass of water. It'd be approximately spherical and a little more than 5 centimeters in diameter, about the size of a small orange. Pretty big for a hailstone, but nowhere near the size of a brick.

This was according to the eyewitnesses that told the news in this old newspaper.

The description that you said is applicable to the usual kind of the hailstones, which also subdivide into two types:

the hailstone that is uprolled by the wind and did not melt: this will be white in the cross section
the hailstone that is uprolled by the hot wind, melt and then freeze once again and get bigger: this will be transparent + white in the cross section.

--

But the other kind of the hailstone, that is carried by the storms from the high mountains; it is possible, especially when some of the snow on the tops of mountains is fluffy and not so compact, and the stormy wind can carry such snow with them; as it has carried some small animals like frogs and fishes. (Tornadoes can carry much heavier objects.)

The indication of that is the occasional falling of colored hailstone: red and black which has been carried from the dust of the mountains and contaminated the snow that has become the colored hails.

eanassir
--

Dexter Sinister

#29

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 25th, 2008

Hailstones are not formed by wind carrying snow off the tops of mountains. If they were there'd be perpetual hailstorms on the lee side of mountain ranges. There aren't. You're never going to understand how nature really works as long as you continue to take the Quran and al-Hilly's ignorant interpretation of it as scientific truth.

And I'll reiterate Lester's comments and questions too. Why do you continue to take the Quran seriously as the source of all true knowledge? It's not, as your ongoing inability to understand something as simple as the fact of the moon's rotation makes clear, because you're simply and completely wrong about it. So is the Quran, and so is al-Hilly. Did you get that? You're wrong. The Quran is wrong. Al-Hilly is wrong. WRONG! Provably wrong, demonstrably wrong, and at every site where you've posted this stuff you've been attacked and mocked and criticized and corrected, or ignored. Nobody's buying this nonsense you're peddling, but you remain impervious to reason and evidence. There's a word for people like that.

eanassir

#30

Re: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

Apr 25th, 2008

Quote: Originally Posted by Lester

Eanassir: Why must you always quote the quran? Can you not think for yourself- the quran is an old text that was written when people were in ignorance of the true nature of things. I do not care what the quran says, nor do I imagine that many members of this site do either.

I do not wish to be converted to Islam, Christianity or anything else- If there is a God then i'm not going to pisss him off by nagging him with prayers about my petty problems.

So , if you want to have a discussion - leave religon out of it.

It is not as you say: "was written": you mean was written and compiled by Mohammed. Not so, but God revealed it to be a light and guidance for all humanity, as had He revealed the Torah and the Gospel before.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 25: 6

قُلْ أَنزَلَهُ الَّذِي يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed, to them]:

"[It is God], That revealed [the Quran], Who knows the secret [that is] in the heavens and the earth;

for surely He is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

This Quran quotation will be for all:

The disbeliever will read it, do not believe, and it will be against him; he should not afterwards: I didn't know; I was unaware of the Quran.
The believer will read it, believe more and understand many things, and will be for his behalf in the next world.

Without the Quran, the word of God, people will be in the darkness of ignorance; even though they are graduated and qualified.

This is in the Quran 45: 23

أَفَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَهَهُ هَوَاهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلَى سَمْعِهِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلَى بَصَرِهِ غِشَاوَةً فَمَن يَهْدِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ اللَّهِ أَفَلَا تَذَكَّرُونَ

The explanation:
(Have you considered him who takes as his god according to his desires,

and God leads him astray in spite of having knowledge,

and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart, and has placed upon his eyesight a covering?

Who then shall guide him after God [has misguided him?] Will you not then reflect?)

Moreover, the Glorious Quran is an essential part of the education, why should not they study its ayat (: Quranic revelations)?
At least see A. J. Arberry: The Koran interpreted; (although it is much defective).
--

eanassir
--
--
--

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